Fixing Shinryu

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Fixing Shinryu
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By RadialArcana 2023-05-27 14:57:58
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I can't find it (too lazy to look) but I seem to remember them specifically saying they refused to ever adjust it again and since they are Japanese that's pretty much perma no as you can get.

Someone correct me if I'm wrong.
 Asura.Eiryl
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By Asura.Eiryl 2023-05-27 15:02:27
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That's their standard. Never revert a change.
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 Bahamut.Celebrindal
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By Bahamut.Celebrindal 2023-05-27 15:23:39
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SE knows that at the end of the day, the vast majority of players only care about the reward, not how we get it....thus the move to Trove and other lottery mechanics vs challenge.

Its a sad truth about us, not SE.
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By Seun 2023-05-27 16:09:32
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RadialArcana said: »
I can't find it (too lazy to look) but I seem to remember them specifically saying they refused to ever adjust it again and since they are Japanese that's pretty much perma no as you can get.

Someone correct me if I'm wrong.
I think it was shortly after they raised the merit cost. There was a response to someone asking if they had made a mistake with the accessories being so common. They did confirm that the low rates were intentional.


Given that so many people were exploiting this fight with brews, I'd expect them only to break their word to lower the drop rates.
 
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By Dodik 2023-05-27 17:06:58
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Shinryu needing "fixing" assumes it was broken in the first place.

This is how SE wants Shinryu. It's working as intended.

"Don't think I'm forcing you" to do the fight bro.
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 Cerberus.Kylos
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By Cerberus.Kylos 2023-05-27 17:35:24
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Dodik said: »
Shinryu needing "fixing" assumes it was broken in the first place.

This is how SE wants Shinryu. It's working as intended.

"Don't think I'm forcing you" to do the fight bro.

The word "fix" does not necessarily have to be mending something that is broken. It can also be defined as doing the necessary work to improve or adapt something. Nobody has said it is broken. No one has said SE is forcing us to do anything. Many players simply choose not to do it, which is a shame.

95% of this games content (exaggeration) is already going to waste, so why allow its latest high tier battlefield to do the same? So yes, "fixing" Shinryu so it is a more rewarding experience without handing us everything on a silver platter is the right word in this case.

If they do nothing about it, I will lose zero sleep over it. I won't care. Honestly, I swear on my health. I have seen other players frustrations with this fight and felt... why not ask? If SE acknowledges it and says "working as intended", I'll be 1) shocked they responded, and 2) happy to know they want most players to ignore it.
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By Bahamut.Skald 2023-05-27 18:02:08
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RadialArcana said: »
I can't find it (too lazy to look) but I seem to remember them specifically saying they refused to ever adjust it again and since they are Japanese that's pretty much perma no as you can get.

Someone correct me if I'm wrong.

Sort of.

Quote:
We would like to address the situation regarding the congestion in ★The Wyrm God.

Our ideal solution would be implementing a multi-layer area or reservation system to allow players to enter the content more smoothly, but this is unfortunately impractical due to the tremendous complexity of adding these for the area used in this particular content.

After hard consideration, we have decided to increase the number of merit points required for phantom gems from 10 to 30 in an effort to allow more players an opportunity to enjoy the content.
Since this adjustment by itself would only become a burden for players, we will also increase the chances of obtaining certain rewards (particularly equipment) across all difficulty levels.
We'll perform an emergency maintenance to apply this change once it's ready for implementation.

Furthermore, this adjustment is not a temporary workaround; it will remain this way moving forward.

We offer our humblest apologies for the inconvenience this has caused.

https://forum.square-enix.com/ffxi/threads/58308-July-2021-FINAL-FANTASY-XI-Digest?p=636967&viewfull=1#post636967
 Ragnarok.Primex
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By Ragnarok.Primex 2023-05-27 18:35:13
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I remember the original Abyssea Shinryu BC. those were some good and fun times. The drops rates were pretty high, true. But everyone was having a blast. Rewarding effort is good. Random *** drop rates, bad.
Also didn't know there was some kind of exploit. Explains why my party blew up on me few weeks back when I did it for the first time and asked them "can we brew this?"
Can someone explain what was the exploit? were people putting up atmas and getting brews, then going into the BC or something?
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By DaneBlood 2023-05-27 19:07:38
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Ragnarok.Primex said: »
I remember the original Abyssea Shinryu BC. those were some good and fun times. The drops rates were pretty high, true. But everyone was having a blast. Rewarding effort is good. Random *** drop rates, bad.
Also didn't know there was some kind of exploit. Explains why my party blew up on me few weeks back when I did it for the first time and asked them "can we brew this?"
Can someone explain what was the exploit? were people putting up atmas and getting brews, then going into the BC or something?


i believe from the tales it was this
buy brew
use brew
Enter the fight
Have fun with brew effect while killing shinryu
 Cerberus.Kylos
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By Cerberus.Kylos 2023-05-27 19:25:08
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Ragnarok.Primex said: »
I remember the original Abyssea Shinryu BC. those were some good and fun times. The drops rates were pretty high, true. But everyone was having a blast. Rewarding effort is good. Random *** drop rates, bad.
Also didn't know there was some kind of exploit. Explains why my party blew up on me few weeks back when I did it for the first time and asked them "can we brew this?"
Can someone explain what was the exploit? were people putting up atmas and getting brews, then going into the BC or something?

A bug would sometimes allow you to use temp items in the fight, despite it not usually being allowed. This let many get away with killing it solo on VD many times over. It took a while for SE to notice and fix it.
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By fillerbunny9 2023-05-27 19:32:13
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Ragnarok.Primex said: »
I remember the original Abyssea Shinryu BC. those were some good and fun times. The drops rates were pretty high, true. But everyone was having a blast. Rewarding effort is good. Random *** drop rates, bad.
Also didn't know there was some kind of exploit. Explains why my party blew up on me few weeks back when I did it for the first time and asked them "can we brew this?"
Can someone explain what was the exploit? were people putting up atmas and getting brews, then going into the BC or something?
what was happening was you entered the lobby and popped a Primeval Brew, and it would not wear properly on entry. this let you drop Shin in ~30 seconds or less on THF, VD with basically zero danger. the drop rate was still horrendous, this just let you speedrun the ~200+ runs a lot of folks seemed to report back before getting a non-Accessory.
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By Vaerix 2023-05-28 04:55:22
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fillerbunny9 said: »
Ragnarok.Primex said: »
I remember the original Abyssea Shinryu BC. those were some good and fun times. The drops rates were pretty high, true. But everyone was having a blast. Rewarding effort is good. Random *** drop rates, bad.
Also didn't know there was some kind of exploit. Explains why my party blew up on me few weeks back when I did it for the first time and asked them "can we brew this?"
Can someone explain what was the exploit? were people putting up atmas and getting brews, then going into the BC or something?
what was happening was you entered the lobby and popped a Primeval Brew, and it would not wear properly on entry. this let you drop Shin in ~30 seconds or less on THF, VD with basically zero danger. the drop rate was still horrendous, this just let you speedrun the ~200+ runs a lot of folks seemed to report back before getting a non-Accessory.

"Speedrun".

This made me laugh.

***P. BREW EXPLOIT*** NOW INSTEAD OF SPENDING 50% OF YOUR TIME REMERITING NOW YOU CAN SPEND 95% OF YOUR TIME REMERITING!
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By Seun 2023-05-28 06:00:19
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Odin.Moonja said: »
I don’t remember even trying this fight when it was only 10 merits,
I’m certainly not going to do 2 fights and then have to go farm merits.

Not picking on anyone here, but picking on everyone...


I really think that farming merits is the wrong way to go about it. Ambu, Omen, Odyssey and now Sortie are all good sources of merits and things you would be doing anyway. You'll fill your merits several times over just keeping up with your normal grind.


Start your week by running your 3 HTMBs and then go on about your regular. At some point in the week, remember to stop at the NPC and grab another KI just like you would for Omen or Odyssey. Some time before the end of the week run another set of 3.


Nearly 100 weeks later, you've done 600 runs and probably finished or very close at this point. If we played like this from the beginning, there probably wouldn't have been that increase in merit cost to curb spamming. So you would have been done months prior at the same pace. ZERO merit farming.
 Asura.Eiryl
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By Asura.Eiryl 2023-05-28 06:47:34
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Next tell them they aren't supposed to just grind to master 50 and instead just get it organically

It's compulsory. They can't choose not to spam merits.
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 Asura.Disclai
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By Asura.Disclai 2023-05-28 08:18:53
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Asura.Eiryl said: »
Next tell them they aren't supposed to just grind to master 50 and instead just get it organically

To be fair, that is practically impossible and would take years per job, assuming you only play one at a time with optimal level syncing. Regular content just doesn't reward enough EP, especially with all the penalizations. It's basically only segruns that theoretically give much of anything; Sortie gives jack ***. Good luck organically MLing that BLM/MNK/DNC/GEO/PUP/SMN!

The ML grind just isn't well-designed past ML30-35, which are simple enough to get via content. Past that, lol good luck.

Leveling up MLs shouldn't reduce EP gains, period. It's dumb to have to continuously sync to lower ML people, and it's dumb that any given high ML person will murder your EP gains otherwise.

Combined with their attempt to curb the AoE method, MLs may as well be designed to incentivize botting/RMT. That's what virtually every person with multiple ML50s has done. (I say as someone whose highest ML is 34.)
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 Valefor.Cinzia
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By Valefor.Cinzia 2023-05-28 09:22:51
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It does need to be fixed. At least for the cloak.

I run VD 6 box this and while rest of the armor/weapons are ok (1/50-1/70) The cloak is absurd amounts.

Search "defeats shinryu" (2354 hits in 77 files of 154 searched)

2354 wins with THF TH9+ and only saw 2 cloaks. I even helped others come in to get drops and they've gotten the mail/helm/scythe/knife easily in few hundred runs.

Cloak now is about 1/1150 or so.
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By Seun 2023-05-28 09:39:04
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Asura.Disclai said: »
The ML grind just isn't well-designed past ML30-35, which are simple enough to get via content. Past that, lol good luck.

Someone should explain to them that they already have increasing TNL as the curve to slow ML progression. It really didn't need the additional bottleneck of reduced EP as you level. No need to double dip.



Valefor.Cinzia said:
Cloak now is about 1/1150 or so.

All of the rare items share a pool so it's more accurate to count them all against your total. Any of them could have been cloak.
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 Shiva.Thorny
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By Shiva.Thorny 2023-05-28 09:58:45
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Asura.Disclai said: »
Leveling up MLs shouldn't reduce EP gains, period. It's dumb to have to continuously sync to lower ML people, and it's dumb that any given high ML person will murder your EP gains otherwise.

This. It's completely inane, you don't actually become meaningful stronger as you gain MLs, at least not to the extent that your kill speed will ever benefit from remaining at your real ML. It was fine for leveling, when you had level correction and other factors. The boosts from ML50 vs ML0 are near irrelevant in an exp scenario with full buffers.
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By Siren.Kruel 2023-05-28 11:47:57
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Seun said: »
Not picking on anyone here, but picking on everyone...


I really think that farming merits is the wrong way to go about it. Ambu, Omen, Odyssey and now Sortie are all good sources of merits and things you would be doing anyway. You'll fill your merits several times over just keeping up with your normal grind.


Start your week by running your 3 HTMBs and then go on about your regular. At some point in the week, remember to stop at the NPC and grab another KI just like you would for Omen or Odyssey. Some time before the end of the week run another set of 3.


Nearly 100 weeks later, you've done 600 runs and probably finished or very close at this point. If we played like this from the beginning, there probably wouldn't have been that increase in merit cost to curb spamming. So you would have been done months prior at the same pace. ZERO merit farming.

You've literally described almost exactly how I've gotten to 500 VD kills, just not keeping up that exact rate because of a 5 month break from the game and mini breaks here and there.

I'm most definitely not "probably finished or very close at this point" with just x4 Scythes to my name lol

As far as some of the other comments from other people about things like the cloak being a rarer drop than other things, it is not.

Its just it shares the same 0.5% dropslot as the other 4 drops, so even when you finally get that 0.5% drop item, you only have a 1/5 chance at the one you want, hence my extreme bad luck with it being the scythe 4 times in a row.

In your case the bad luck you're experiencing is the 0.5% drop being one of the other four 0.5% drops every time.

Its lilith times 100, not difficult for most to get a few pieces of malignance gear, but once you get to 4/5, that 10% dropslot chance of malig gear ends up also being a 1/5 chance at the piece you need every time you get said dropslot.
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By Seun 2023-05-28 19:27:29
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Yeah the streaks are brutal. My streak came after my first drop. You go months without a drop and start getting the itch to spam. You stare at the loot pool wondering if you keep getting the same item or you just didn't get the second slot.


Guarantee second slot and add a chance for a third on VD. I like the idea of the proc system, but because of how the boxes work on lower difficulty... I don't think people would bother if it's adding time to an already long run though. Most people would probably be better off running lower difficulty unless they're teaming up.


Also, the 'other' rewards are the same BS we've been getting for years now. They should have added the higher tier materials used to upgrade JSE as an uncommon drop. Somewhat valuable/useful drops every now and then would be welcome.
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By Cerberus.Kylos 2023-05-28 19:30:58
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Cerberus.Kylos said: »
Anyone who really knows Shinryu's HTB knows what I'm alluding to. I respectfully ask anyone who would appreciate SE fixing this fight (to make entry & drop rates respectable without turning it into easy mode) to click the link, log in to the forum, and give the post a thumbs up. If nothing comes of this, I won't be upset, but it doesn't hurt to try. Thank you.

Please Fix Shinryu

We're up to 24. If you want any chance of change happening, click the above link.
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By Valefor.Cinzia 2023-05-28 20:18:40
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Seun said: »
Asura.Disclai said: »
The ML grind just isn't well-designed past ML30-35, which are simple enough to get via content. Past that, lol good luck.

Someone should explain to them that they already have increasing TNL as the curve to slow ML progression. It really didn't need the additional bottleneck of reduced EP as you level. No need to double dip.



Valefor.Cinzia said:
Cloak now is about 1/1150 or so.

All of the rare items share a pool so it's more accurate to count them all against your total. Any of them could have been cloak.

If it was true, I wouldn't have been only 2/6 on cloaks when everything else was done for my 6. Then I added other people to get anything but non cloak and at least 5 others got full sets (minus cloak). Who else has over 2000+ runs data? It's obvious they made the cloak a sub drop of all other drops at a lower rate.

The other armor/weapons at ~1/50 if distributed equally, then I should be sitting at least at 5/6 or 6/6 cloaks and just missing another weapon or armor, but it's the cloak that's being last and not even close. If I were at 4/6 or 5/6 maybe I'd believe they put it as same rate, but it isn't.
 
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By Felgarr 2023-05-28 21:09:36
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Odin.Moonja said: »
How much would a person pay for a cloak from trove? Asking for a friend.

Someone on Asura shouted for 200M, got into a bidding war and it went for 260M... :/
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By Seun 2023-05-28 21:10:36
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Valefor.Cinzia said: »
If it was true, I wouldn't have been only 2/6 on cloaks when everything else was done for my 6.

I'm not sure I understand what you're talking about. There are only 5 rare items. What is 2/6 on cloaks? 6 different characters?

*edit


Win
Roll slots(difficulty modifier applied here if necessary)
Roll for loot(twice if necessary for the additional slot)

/roll 0-988 and you get an item from the common pool
Three common items. 1/3 chance to receive any of them.

/roll 989-999 and you get an item from the rare pool
Five rare items. 1/5 chance to receive any of them.

*Or they could just apply the first roll to the loot directly, which is essentially the same thing...

0-329 Crepuscular Earring
330-659 Crepuscular Ring
660-989 Crepuscular Pebble
--------------------------
990-991 Crepuscular Helm
992-993 Crepuscular Mail
994-995 Crepuscular Cloak
996-997 Crepuscular Scythe
998-999 Crepuscular Knife


These are combined with whatever guaranteed loot you would get(chapters, currency, mats), and then applied to your treasure pool. There is no sub pool, here nor in Trove.
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By Siren.Kruel 2023-05-29 01:51:40
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Valefor.Cinzia said: »
If it was true, I wouldn't have been only 2/6 on cloaks when everything else was done for my 6. Then I added other people to get anything but non cloak and at least 5 others got full sets (minus cloak). Who else has over 2000+ runs data? It's obvious they made the cloak a sub drop of all other drops at a lower rate.

The other armor/weapons at ~1/50 if distributed equally, then I should be sitting at least at 5/6 or 6/6 cloaks and just missing another weapon or armor, but it's the cloak that's being last and not even close. If I were at 4/6 or 5/6 maybe I'd believe they put it as same rate, but it isn't.
Probabilities are still that, probable, not 100%.

Nothing stopping something that's a 1/100 droprate taking 1/1000, just statistically speaking it's unlikely, but things completely defy probabilities every day, in all kinds of ways.

What's to say I don't have bad luck and go another 500 kills with another 4 scythes?

Do I then start saying that the scythe is a much higher droprate for me, therefor all the other rare items have a different droprate?

I'd love to complain about it but I recognise it for what it is, bad luck, or at the very least I can't make a definitive judgement on it.

Definite statements like "It's obvious they made the cloak a sub drop of all other drops at a lower rate"
should be avoided, dealing in definites when using assumptions is contrary.
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By Carbuncle.Nynja 2023-05-29 05:40:18
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Siren.Kruel said: »
Nothing stopping something that's a 1/100 droprate taking 1/1000, just statistically speaking it's unlikely, but things completely defy probabilities every day, in all kinds of ways.

What's to say I don't have bad luck and go another 500 kills with another 4 scythes?

I still have my Saber Shoot drop rates noted:
One char went 1/1, one char went 1/21, and allllllll the way at the other end of the spectrum, another char went 1/430.
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By Ragnarok.Primex 2023-05-29 06:22:59
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Odin.Moonja said: »
How much would a person pay for a cloak from trove? Asking for a friend.
Paid 100m.
started a bidding war from all my alts to make sure my main got it.
Bid started at 20m
had to role-play a bit. made sure my 5 alts were on the a$$hole spectrum and my main was Mr. Nice guy
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