Kyou Issues

It's alliance hate like all the rest, but pets sitting there won't count unless the master has done something. We've even had people out of PT get hit by it :D.

Personally, I really don't like having dps in range on Kyou. It makes tanking more annoying and puts a heavier burden on your whm. The kind of setup I like to roll is RUN/BLU RNG COR GEO WHM, you can run a second tank in the sixth slot for safety if you want, or have another GEO or BRD for more buffs. Damage usually isn't the issue, just control. If everyone is prepared when you push Bravado, you can shadowbind and arise immediately and get it back on the RUN within 20 seconds.

Easiest way to handle all the debuffs is by just not having people in range to get hit by them.

I've done it melee style a few times with WAR, and it's a bit of a requirement for the WAR to have a proper -dt set to hold after Bravado. It's less consistent, and a fair bit harder on your whm, so I really prefer doing it with ranged.

As far as draw in, it'll do it after Bravado fairly often as your tank loses hate, but if everyone is idling in -dt gear you should easily be able to survive long enough for the tank to get control and everyone to get back in position. Your RUN should be smart about One for All and Valiance, I always make sure one is up on my party before we push a Bravado to maximize survival. They are also extremely useful for the last 25%.

I find it harder to tank on PUP than RUN, but the puppetmaster themselves should never be dying to anything Kyou does. Were they meleeing or something?

usually 3 man this with geo mule.
pld geo whm smn

just hold minimal hate on the pld and let ramuh pull hate(different direction) during bravado, i usually save apogee for this. easy win with a decent whm

No matter which strat you choose to go with, coordination and teamwork are the name of the game. If people aren't on the same page and precise with execution, it's very hard to win reliably.

I think all the Omen boss's are tests in coordination and team work, none are really "hard" though. Don't need amazing gear or anything, plenty of time to kill them.

Isn't it amazing how Omen bosses are designed so overly simplistic and predictable, and yet, some players still have issues with very basic mechanics they know are coming? It's not even a cheap move or anything. If you don't work together and follow a very basic plan, you will just die, or cause others to die because of your foolhardy approach.

So yeah pets are weird. When they have hate a lot of AoEs though not all that target them will only hit that party. If you every wondered why you saw a pt that had a single pup in it but the other pts in the alliance weren't full that's why.

Anyways to add to the pet discussion it can be done with just pup pup cor. For most part it involves keeping the 2 autos on opposite sides and making them do a dd/tank hybrid set while making sure to stay in range in order to see chat log on your autos. It's pretty simple other than making sure to take off petrification because that really slows you down. And if hp gets low to maybe swap in some more defensive gear/maneuvers. Obviously resummoning upon bravados.

The only real dangerous part is below 25% when it does meteor which makes it hard to stay in range to keep eye on auto so I just overdrive and run in quick when it kills one at 10%. This ensure additional effects wont land and that your auto definitely wont die and 2 autos can fairly easily take it from 25% to death long before OD is over

(I don't like the new guys voice, but this applies pretty well here.)

Why Kyou (and omen in general, and *** the entirety of ffxi) is so incredibly easy, but so damn impossible at the same time. It's not directly related to MMOs but relatable.



TL:DW Other people always *** it up.

I would think that 2x pup doing overdrive w/ cor rolls can probably take kyou down from 50% to 0 before OD wears off.

I don't remember exactly how much damage I did when last using OD on kyou. but it rips him up pretty well.

I haven't been to omen on pup for awhile, since I got all my cards and working on cards for other jobs.

real reason for waiting would be the 10k death to pup move that you can't mitigate. you want only 1 pup to die, preferably NOT the one doing overdrive.

Sorry if it was mentioned, but you can also have the tank at the edge with their back to the center of the field and have people line up behind tank ~13' from Kyou which puts them outside of most of Kyou's TP moves while still in range of bravado. Feels like Bravado range is a bit weird where it might extend for 10~12' but is centered on the hate target instead of Kyou itself. For a RNG setup this can work really well if you save your JA for the last 25% you can just stand in a static position and beat it down curing as necessary with a healer off to the side to avoid getting silenced (hits 15'). Can make for pretty fast Kyou kills when it goes right.

If they don't die (ie you got someone else to take the death or you can survive it) yeah likely. Dying really kills things though. Aside from the time it takes to activate and position correct again the loss of all the +stat is pretty painful in terms of dmg output

I was just talking to a player about this last night. Kyou seriously should have been designed with Migawari in mind, in that it could be the only reasonable survival method for a solo tank player to handle. There is literally no monsters in the game that NIN has any inherent advantage in tanking that PLD/RUN can't already cover. This would have been the one instance where a Ninja tank would shine amazingly solely in this particular scenario, just by being able to eat the damage via copy Migawari. Kind of silly SE allowed this to bypass Migawari.

Migawari is just poorly designed in general. The idea that it needs to exist is even worse.

There should be nothing it doesn't work on. If it exists, it exists. How can you justify it being a thing if you constantly make moves that ignore it.

Or be more precise with communication.

90% of fail PUG that I've seen are the result of pt organizer not being super clear about what to do, and didn't convey the big picture of the battleflow. They expect members "know what to do" the result is that everyone not on the same page = fail hard.

I recommend always start with easiest strat in PUG which is sacing a tank.

wish i could like this more than once. Terrible concept indeed. Just think about this logically for a second:

Utsusemi can block all physical/magical one-hit moves that normally could kill you otherwise. They also protect against dangerous multi-hit moves physical moves. However there are moves that can bypass or completely strip utsusemi, making it entirely useless for surviving certain moves.

Insert Migawari, a move that, by design, gives you one free "oshit" shadow that blocks any severe damage that would have killed you. This move will protect you vs moves that utsusemi won't, assuming it meets the conditions. That sounds like the perfect backup plan for Utsusemi failing, right?

Plot twist: SE introduce moves that bypass Migawari (and by default, Utsusemi) so there's no way to get around this mechanic. Basically, both moves designed to help you survive will fail 100% of the time against certain moves. That is a progression that makes no logical sense to me at all.

I'm not looking for favoritism for NIN or anything, but when you decide to create a move to help NIN (of all jobs) survive ***nobody else can, and then create moves that circumvent that one move that NIN has, ***is demoralizing.

90% of the PUG organizers don't themselves know what to do, they saw someone else do something or may have done 20% of the content and decide they can run a group.

Sometimes those fails though are because the organizer makes perfectly reasonable assumption that the PUG fails lol. Like yes you actually need a KI to enter. Or that they actually watch the log to see what's going on. Or at least read what the boss does. What a magic burst is etc.

This is exactly why people need to stop posting videos. The intent is good. What actually happens is the exact opposite of good.

I'm just not in agreement with this assessment at all. You can literally spell out for someone what to do. There are players who don't read, communicate, or know how to follow a very simple and basic strategy. You could draw it in crayon, and some are just not quick on their feet to make adjustments, or know what to do when called upon.

Every time I do Thinker, someone (myself totally included) sets off Pain Sync. Every single time I do Ou or Fu, someone gets absorbed incorrectly. Occasionally it's a mistake and that happens. But when the tank specifically has 10 buffs absorbed, or when the whm is standing in range and everyone else is telling him to "get back"...that's not poor communication, its just dense players who have tunnel vision and are only focused on what they need to do, and not the bigger picture.

I was in a Kin group where nearly every front line player kept dying to Interference. I begged one of the two GEOs to just switch to fade so we could win. His response - "No, I was told to Frailty/Fury, I'm not doing anything else but this unless the leader tells me to". We all ended up wiping shortly afterwards. There have even been times when I've told players to switch the buffs or strategy on the fly and some couldn't make the change quickly. Rather than understanding and embracing the change in circumstances, they freeze and don't know how to adjust. That's not something a player can be taught, they have to learn how to be adaptable to what happens when ***goes left. You cannot blame the leader for that. True, I know it's not always reasonable to expect someone to know how to flip a strat at the drop of a hat all the time. But it's situations like that, when I can see who can and cannot make changes on the fly, is what really separates players who have potential and players who are just bad and won't get better.

Dude. This pisses me off more than anything. The idea that you can ONLY fury frail Sam/Chaos march and minuet.

Seriously. Knock that ***off. Fade Wilt (not so much vex anymore) Scherzo Minne CAROLS Magusroll can be vitally important.

It's magnitudes better to win slower, than it is to fail.

And yes, use a god damn DT set. If your reflexes aren't good enough to put it on, LEAVE it on. A dead DPS does ZERO DPS.

Yeah, I don't join many PUGs, but the few that I have joined lacked and kind of direction/leadership. They just let players loose to do what they want, and you can get away with that on some things, but Kyou isn't one of them.


This, as well.

In 2018, most of the player base still doesn't understand basic game mechanics, of course things will still seem so goddamned hard.

It's all here in the forums, tied up in a bow, but they'll just go directly for the bullet-points, or equip sets, and completely gloss over the actual discussions and deep dives.



And, this.

With the level of distractions to deal with these days, I only assume people can give at most 50% attention to battle. Babies screaming, spouse scowling, dog shitting on the rug, phone buzzing, Youtube/TV, etc.

I'm willing to give the benefit of the doubt to players and assume they made an honest mistake or were distracted. But what talking about is complete and utter failure and inadequate players who, in short for lack of a better phrase, are just bad players. It's one thing when you can give instructions to someone and they forget or make a gaffe. Everyone does that. But when players cannot follow even the most basic of instructions, either due to stubbornness or just lack of interest, that's the biggest annoyance to pick up groups in general. These are people you can't help at all and you need to move on from them because they will always cause your future pugs to end in failure.

Losing sucks, but knowing you lost because 1/6 players (usually the whm) is a complete imbecile is frustrating on so many levels. That's literally the worst part of pick up groups

I will never understand how WHM is the MOST shouted job, While being the MOST IMPORTANT JOB.

You're placing your entire run, on someone who can't get into content as "favorite job" and was "forced" to play whm. It's asking to fail.

I know that no one(*) is happy to play WHM. I get it. WHM was my first 75 a hundred years ago. But someone has to.

I've brought this up before, I genuinely think the person that has to play WHM should be further rewarded. Extra points, extra personal pool drop slot, free gear, whatever it takes.

Same token, there needs to be punishments for bad play too. Simply losing time is not enough for some people to give the smallest amount of effort.

What you described here are examples of bad organization exactly. The first Step to avoid bad organization is don't assume every player is the same. Most people do, that's how a pt fails because they can't control the situation.



Pain sync is tricky(I totally triggers it myself all the damn time too) and it's probably more ideal to organize the pt assume that it will go off 1-2 times at least. I would just make mages stay far away and setup safety net to recover from wipe.

I would also warn the DDs to turn back immediately on red line in case they don't know about chat log lags.


For this kind of people, I would assign easier roles for them and make them do only ONE thing in pt. Support is great for low reflex players, maybe DD too. Tanks/mage/healers not so much.


One way to deal with this is, before engage, leader should run to the furthest wall and tell tank "tank here and face the wall, DO NOT MOVE", then run 20 yalm and tell the whm "heal here, DO NOT MOVE OR ELSE WE WIPE". Unless the member is retard it normally works.

Repositioning mid fight is tougher because it requires more reflex, position correctly before engage is much easier for everyone.



This is the prime example of poor organization.....There should be ONE people giving directions, not two. If 2 people gives different direction its confusing and 99% of the time pt ended up not on the same page because everyone try to do different things, and fail.

Ive failed VD many times even with close friends when this happens. 2 leaders in the same pt should be avoided at all cost.

If you happened in a pt using a strategy that doesn't work, like fury/frailty on Omen bosses, the best way is to send a tell to the leader so he is the one issuing a change.



From pt organization pov, it's the attitude.

Players with quick reflex are minority, it's the combination of video game talent and experience. If organizers are always relying every member to top end reflex then it would be difficult to fill up the pt slots.

As an organizer are you gonna sit in pt complaining, or look for ways to deal with it.

I don't have top end reflex myself, nor most of people that I play with. If I'm going to rely on reflex to get things done then nothing gets done.

But organization is an underestimated but valuable skill. Either work on it and make better pt, or complain about every member in pt being "bad" but nothing is fixed in the end.

It's not even a hard job just boring.

I'd only give them extra if they earned it! You'd be surprised the number of support that literally need to be told to remove status effects or cure every single time. Though tbf have had to tell blms to MB at every single skillchain before too. There's being organized and explaining things clearly and then there is basically 6 boxing with someone elses hands lol

I think the moral of the story here is to not do events like this with pick up groups. Then again, my server has essentially non-existent shout groups for this content and I just roll with my small LS, so I'm probably biased.

Considering you can six man most of this content though with half your party being dualboxed, it seems like you're just making it harder on yourself than it needs to be by trying to coordinate a bunch of randoms into successfully handling all the Omen bosses little gimmicks.

It also takes extremely minimal effort to make yourself a pocket whm so that no one has to deal with playing a job they don't want to play. I can understand this being less common on Asura with the bigger playerbase, but making a pocket whm/geo/brd is pretty much the best decision I ever made.

Kyou isn't particularly hard to organize with randoms compare with some of the ambu VD tbh. On a scale of 10 I probably wouldn't rank it higher than 4 when it comes to difficulty in PUG. Using RUN DD, fade and sacing method made it incredibly easy with very low chance to fail at all, even with randoms.

August 2017 vol1 VD(sahagin) and March 2018 VD (moogle none smn setup) are some of the toughest fight that I've organized in past 1-2 years. Would worth a 8/10 or 9/10 when it comes to difficulty. Once you get past doing that with randoms, everything seems incredibly easy by comparsion.

If you want "easy" PUG Kyous, just lock the one thing you want and take as many damn bodies as you can. Get to around 10 total between chars and pets and just eat Bravado in a cone 15' deep behind the tank. Highly suggest RUNs tossing out 3x Lux Valliance to their parties, BRDs for Dark Carols, as a poorly timed Curse-ga on the Alliance right before Bravado hurts a lot more when everyone's purposely getting hit.

Clearly this works better during card campaign as you can get people willing to come on your runs just for a good card return and with 10+ job choice isn't as important for everyone...meaning people might jump at the chance to get cards on a random job as a trade for being Bravado Fodder.

Same, as pt organizer I'm most likely to have successful runs on healer/mage.


Kinda ironic that despite my main is cor, the job has least relevance to the outcome of a run. I can literally let ANYONE on this role and it's only going to make a few min difference. By comparsion the difference that a mage and healer made is ***run that takes 20 min recovering from wipe or 5 min run smoothly.

It's more than just heals, silence/dispel makes so much difference in terms of kill speed, so much more than the difference between avg DD and elite ones.