Sam WS Gear Advice

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Sam WS gear advice
 Caitsith.Alriath
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By Caitsith.Alriath 2010-06-03 12:58:05
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Well I figure we're talking about things to upgrade to, not how hard they are to obtain.
 Bahamut.Raenryong
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By Bahamut.Raenryong 2010-06-03 12:58:10
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Fenrir.Nightfyre said:
Ifrit's Bow is a *** and a half to get. Not sure how Ire 1 stacks up against Snow Gorget and I can't be bothered to do SAM math right now.

General rule of thumb is that Snow Gorget on average is equal to ~15STR without the Attack.
 Fenrir.Nightfyre
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By Fenrir.Nightfyre 2010-06-03 12:59:10
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Bahamut.Raenryong said:
Fenrir.Nightfyre said:
Ifrit's Bow is a *** and a half to get. Not sure how Ire 1 stacks up against Snow Gorget and I can't be bothered to do SAM math right now.

General rule of thumb is that Snow Gorget on average is equal to ~15STR without the Attack.
*whistles*

Alright then, all you I WS IN JUSTICE TORQUE SAMs take note! Though I'm pretty sure we've covered that one before.
 
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By 2010-06-03 13:00:47
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 Caitsith.Alriath
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By Caitsith.Alriath 2010-06-03 13:01:52
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Fenrir.Nightfyre said:
Bahamut.Raenryong said:
Fenrir.Nightfyre said:
Ifrit's Bow is a *** and a half to get. Not sure how Ire 1 stacks up against Snow Gorget and I can't be bothered to do SAM math right now.

General rule of thumb is that Snow Gorget on average is equal to ~15STR without the Attack.
*whistles*

Alright then, all you I WS IN JUSTICE TORQUE SAMs take note! Though I'm pretty sure we've covered that one before.

I don't have Jtorque, but I could have sworn I seen someone math snow vs it and Jtorque won.

I was wrong!
 Fenrir.Nightfyre
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By Fenrir.Nightfyre 2010-06-03 13:04:22
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Lakshmi.Mabrook said:
When you get enough STP merits gear try looking into a Sword Strap with Hagun, it beats Pole Grip on everything except mobs you don't TP on like HNM and such.
Has more to do with the trades you make elsewhere to accommodate for the additional STP required. /DRG with VBelt should definitely be using Sword Strap provided they have the necessary Usukane pieces, otherwise it's situational. I'd definitely agree that Pole is superior if you're just Med->WSing though.
 Bahamut.Raenryong
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By Bahamut.Raenryong 2010-06-03 13:12:02
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Caitsith.Alriath said:
Fenrir.Nightfyre said:
Bahamut.Raenryong said:
Fenrir.Nightfyre said:
Ifrit's Bow is a *** and a half to get. Not sure how Ire 1 stacks up against Snow Gorget and I can't be bothered to do SAM math right now.

General rule of thumb is that Snow Gorget on average is equal to ~15STR without the Attack.
*whistles*

Alright then, all you I WS IN JUSTICE TORQUE SAMs take note! Though I'm pretty sure we've covered that one before.

I don't have Jtorque, but I could have sworn I seen someone math snow vs it and Jtorque won.

I was wrong!

I remember this was discussed on this forum at some point but I can't find it.

Regardless, since it's easy enough:

Using JTorque at best case scenario: 5STR => 3WSC (unlikely) and 5STR also => 2 fSTR. Say that you had 140 base damage (DMG + fSTR + WSC) before adding JTorque. 5/140 = a 3.58% increase in damage.

Gorget is a 0.1/1.5625 = 6.4% increase in damage (5.3% if you are using Hagun) at 100% TP. Worst case scenario for Gorget is a 0.1/2.5 = 4% increase in damage at 300% TP (200% TP Hagun).

Tl;dr: Best case scenario Justice Torque < worst case scenario WS Gorget.
 Caitsith.Alriath
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By Caitsith.Alriath 2010-06-03 13:13:32
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Yeah I found the thread, someone showed incorrect math and you corrected it. I was just mixed up.
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By Leviathan.Willoflame 2010-06-03 13:17:15
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Valefor.Argettio said:
Everyone seems to except Dusk 1 hands beat Homam hands and that's 4acc

Yet everyone argues about turban is better than askar (only 2-2.5 acc)

Edit:
Leviathan.Willoflame said:


There's mine. It's near perfect. Missing Nocturnus & maybe something else.

Wrong way round.

Foragers and Osode (14STR and 15 attack) is better than Hauby 1 and Smilodon Mantle 1 (11STR 12 attack)

Yep, I know Osode is better, but I sold it (in hopes of getting Noct. mail) when i saw the price drop. As for Foragers, I don't think that it's better than Smilodon +1.

Regarding the modifiers for Y/G/K (and please give me credit if you quote this to anyone, heh). Gekko receives the largest multiplier to the c ration (your att vs the mob's def), followed by Kasha and then Yuki. That said, read below...

- merits/limbus/dynamis/einherjar/etc mobs are around LV 83 and have about 330 defense ~430 attack will put you to the cap;

- HNMs like Cerberus/Khimaira/Ixion/Fafnir/Gods are around LV87 and have about 500-550 defense 700-770 attack will put you to the cap;

- Wyrms/Kirin/JoL are around LV95 and have about 600 defense ~950 attack will be enough to hit the cap.

So yeah, this means that if you reach those attack values, you are better off using Osode and Smilo+1 for Gekko, if you don't, keep using Haub+1/Cerb(+1).

In Dynamis and Meritting situations, once you hit 430 Attack you could strap 10 pairs of O.Kote to your arms and the hypothetical +200 attack wouldn't do you a lick of good based on the cap placed on the c ration in the damage equation. If you see your attack at the ~430 range (450, to be safe) add as much strength as you're able to in order to see better results.

Put on a Smilodon Mantle +1 for WS. Go on, do it. You'll feel dirty for awhile, but soon you'll admit to liking it :P
 Bahamut.Raenryong
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By Bahamut.Raenryong 2010-06-03 13:23:57
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Argettio wasn't disagreeing with you above; he just assumed you had Osode but didn't want to give up too much Attack for whatever reason so stuck with WSing in Hauby+1 and used Smilodon+1 to try to make up the STR loss.
 Valefor.Argettio
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By Valefor.Argettio 2010-06-03 13:24:59
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You missed my point.

I know how attack caps, and I know that SAM can need attack gear when fighting high defence mobs.

My point was, when you need attack, Osode + Foragers = More STR and More Attack that Hauby + Smilodon.

Your set suggests you needed attack (otherwise your 'near perfect' set would have an osode) and I was simply pointing out you had changed the wrong slot to get your attack.

Cat-*** (I mean Raen) beat me to explaining my own point :P
 Leviathan.Willoflame
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By Leviathan.Willoflame 2010-06-03 13:25:42
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I thought he was saying that foragers is better than smilodon +1.
[+]
 Valefor.Argettio
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By Valefor.Argettio 2010-06-03 13:27:06
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Leviathan.Willoflame said:
I thought he was saying that foragers is better than smilodon 1.

It is when you want attack.

In fact it should be the first item you swap when you need more attack.

-2 STR and +15 attack is an awesome trade

Hauby+1 is -4 STR and+12 att, which by comparison... sucks.
[+]
 Leviathan.Willoflame
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By Leviathan.Willoflame 2010-06-03 13:27:27
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Valefor.Argettio said:
You missed my point.

I know how attack caps, and I know that SAM can need attack gear when fighting high defence mobs.

My point was, when you need attack, Osode Foragers = More STR and More Attack that Hauby Smilodon.

Your set suggests you needed attack (otherwise your 'near perfect' set would have an osode) and I was simply pointing out you had changed the wrong slot to get your attack.

Cat-*** (I mean Raen) beat me to explaining my own point :P

Drats! foiled again. Well-played, I just misunderstood what you meant.

Also: lol @ Cat-*** :P I think the same thing
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 Valefor.Argettio
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By Valefor.Argettio 2010-06-03 13:29:28
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Sylph.Kanbaru said:
the 3 str on hachiman will beat the 3 str rutters? wut

When you need the sTP

IE when using Bobcat belt (or whatever the 8STR belt is called)
 Gilgamesh.Xenhas
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By Gilgamesh.Xenhas 2010-06-03 13:57:54
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Leviathan.Willoflame said:


There's mine. It's near perfect. Missing Nocturnus & maybe something else.

It also has something extra. A 7th hit :/
[+]
 Fenrir.Nightfyre
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By Fenrir.Nightfyre 2010-06-03 13:58:32
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Depends on what he's TPing in.
 Valefor.Argettio
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By Valefor.Argettio 2010-06-03 13:59:17
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Depends what he TPs in.


RAGE...... Always BEATEN! RAWWWWRRR!!!!

I am bored.
 Gilgamesh.Xenhas
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By Gilgamesh.Xenhas 2010-06-03 13:59:57
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I looked after and /facepalmed myself
 Pandemonium.Ironguy
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By Pandemonium.Ironguy 2010-06-03 14:04:16
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Sylph.Kanbaru said:
the 3 str on hachiman will beat the 3 str rutters? wut

Hachiman Sune-ate +1's Store TP (6) to counter-react the -Store TP on Bobcat Belt, making the suggested setup theoretically +3 more STR on your feet at the sacrifice of 8.75 (technically 8) attack.

Kind of wishing I didn't pass that belt not too long ago, since back then I was under the impression it'd drop my own self to a seven-hit rather commonly (since I tend to abuse my physical reduction very commonly, but for good reason of course). Oh well, there's always next time, and luckily he's (in my opinion) the easiest T3 VNM too.
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By Ifrit.Darkanaseur 2010-06-03 14:05:43
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Leviathan.Willoflame said:
Regarding the modifiers for Y/G/K (and please give me credit if you quote this to anyone, heh).

Just sayin' but, this is quite widely known >_>
 Lakshmi.Zeosilot
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By Lakshmi.Zeosilot 2010-06-08 08:08:49
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This is my Sam atm. I wouldn't say it "near perfect" but it's not half bad either.

The bobcat belt doesn't prevent me from achieving a 6 hit build (with 5/5 STP merits) and the main thing I want to change atm is my neck piece for WS's.
 Sylph.Sukh
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By Sylph.Sukh 2010-06-09 05:20:58
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Deltino said:
ty for all ya advice and zorander not really trying to show off just wondering why i get out wsed by some other sams. just wanna try to get to the same lvl that they are at. gear is something i can change now. i know merits play a big part and i am 4/5 overwhelm 5/5 med and 2/5 str and 3/8 gkt.

Don't feel bad Delt, you're in my LS xD Alright alright /ego off yada yada.
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By Thannatos 2010-06-17 00:57:05
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Lolz. I WS in this:



I wish. D:

I WS in this:


; ;