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Amano w/o salvage
Server: Fenrir
Game: FFXI
Posts: 11680
By Fenrir.Nightfyre 2010-05-29 20:42:46
Sylph.Kimble said: The 2nd hit was most likely a DA proc, lol.
EDIT: Even if it is a two-hit WS, the acc boost is irrefutable and nothing changes. I've seen no data to that effect though and I'd expect documented evidence of it by now. Absence of evidence is evidence in itself at times.
 Shiva.Daimos
Server: Shiva
Game: FFXI
Posts: 1202
By Shiva.Daimos 2010-05-29 20:51:30
I was under the impression that the first hit of ALL physical WS's had an enormous accuracy boost.
Server: Hades
Game: FFXI
Posts: 305
By Hades.Excelior 2010-05-29 20:53:19
Even the relic WSs with multihit animation are all single hit, I really hope people don't believe otherwise :/ I've seen thieves stack accuracy for mercy stroke though and that makes me cry.
Server: Fenrir
Game: FFXI
Posts: 11680
By Fenrir.Nightfyre 2010-05-29 20:58:07
Shiva.Daimos said: I was under the impression that the first hit of ALL physical WS's had an enormous accuracy boost. All WS is a very bold statement that's also rather difficult to prove. I'm fairly sure certain low-level one-hit WS don't receive an acc boost (I recall Dasva posting a parse to this effect a while back). Multihits get a flat out "I have no idea" from me; again, would be annoying and time consuming to test.
Obviously ***like Slugwinder are a notable exception - acc penalty ftfw.
EDIT: Then again, maybe not... there's a 12.5% chance of missing all hits of Savage Blade at 50% hitrate; as long as you don't contaminate your data by taking hits as you WS it shouldn't be too bad with Blind pots.
 Pandemonium.Ironguy
Server: Pandemonium
Game: FFXI
Posts: 2600
By Pandemonium.Ironguy 2010-05-29 21:06:44
Lakshmi.Mabrook said: I read the BG thread and I'd say yes Kaiten does indeed have an Accuracy boost within the WS itself (wrong on my part for saying it doesn't, ty Nightfyre), but if what Daimos says is true that all first hit of high level WS get the same accuracy boost then one can assume that the info isn't possible to validate Kaiten is a one-hit WS. 
[+]
Shiva.Daimos
Server: Shiva
Game: FFXI
Posts: 1202
By Shiva.Daimos 2010-05-29 21:06:54
Fenrir.Nightfyre said: Shiva.Daimos said: I was under the impression that the first hit of ALL physical WS's had an enormous accuracy boost. All WS is a very bold statement that's also rather difficult to prove. I'm fairly sure certain low-level one-hit WS don't receive an acc boost (I recall Dasva posting a parse to this effect a while back). Multihits get a flat out "I have no idea" from me; again, would be annoying and time consuming to test. Obviously ***like Slugwinder are a notable exception - acc penalty ftfw.
When I get the chance I'll try the blind potion test for Steel Cyclone, since that's really the one I care about.
No parser for xbox so pen and paper ftw :P
Server: Fenrir
Game: FFXI
Posts: 11680
By Fenrir.Nightfyre 2010-05-29 21:07:20
Lakshmi.Mabrook said: I read the BG thread and I'd say yes Kaiten does indeed have an Accuracy boost within the WS itself (wrong on my part for saying it doesn't, ty Nightfyre), but if what Daimos says is true that all first hit of high level WS get the same accuracy boost then one can assume that the info isn't possible to validate Kaiten is a one-hit WS. WS in no DA gear without getting hit, <tp>, record, done.
Server: Fenrir
Game: FFXI
Posts: 11680
By Fenrir.Nightfyre 2010-05-29 21:08:08
Shiva.Daimos said: Fenrir.Nightfyre said: Shiva.Daimos said: I was under the impression that the first hit of ALL physical WS's had an enormous accuracy boost. All WS is a very bold statement that's also rather difficult to prove. I'm fairly sure certain low-level one-hit WS don't receive an acc boost (I recall Dasva posting a parse to this effect a while back). Multihits get a flat out "I have no idea" from me; again, would be annoying and time consuming to test. Obviously ***like Slugwinder are a notable exception - acc penalty ftfw.
When I get the chance I'll try the blind potion test for Steel Cyclone, since that's really the one I care about.
No parser for xbox so pen and paper ftw :P I'll gather some data myself when I can. Isn't SC known to get an acc boost though?
Shiva.Daimos
Server: Shiva
Game: FFXI
Posts: 1202
By Shiva.Daimos 2010-05-29 21:09:06
Fenrir.Nightfyre said: Shiva.Daimos said: Fenrir.Nightfyre said: Shiva.Daimos said: I was under the impression that the first hit of ALL physical WS's had an enormous accuracy boost. All WS is a very bold statement that's also rather difficult to prove. I'm fairly sure certain low-level one-hit WS don't receive an acc boost (I recall Dasva posting a parse to this effect a while back). Multihits get a flat out "I have no idea" from me; again, would be annoying and time consuming to test. Obviously ***like Slugwinder are a notable exception - acc penalty ftfw. When I get the chance I'll try the blind potion test for Steel Cyclone, since that's really the one I care about. No parser for xbox so pen and paper ftw :P I'll gather some data myself when I can. Isn't SC known to get an acc boost though? I don't ever visit BG so, I wouldnt know.
Server: Fenrir
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Posts: 11680
By Fenrir.Nightfyre 2010-05-29 21:12:14
I honestly wouldn't know either, I'm just assuming given I'm pretty sure the SC builds I've seen ignored acc altogether.
EDIT: And before I forget, I feel like the all WS thing has come up before... gonna search around real quick, pretty sure there was a thread a while back.
Shiva.Daimos
Server: Shiva
Game: FFXI
Posts: 1202
By Shiva.Daimos 2010-05-29 21:27:41
Well I was thinking of also testing a multi hit weaponskill, like penta thrust. If the tp return is >13 (drg/whm) ~95% then I'll have atleast proved something.
 Sylph.Kimble
Server: Sylph
Game: FFXI
Posts: 2912
By Sylph.Kimble 2010-05-29 21:53:07
2nd hit gives 1 tp I think.
Shiva.Daimos
Server: Shiva
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Posts: 1202
By Shiva.Daimos 2010-05-29 21:53:58
Lakshmi.Mabrook said: That brings up another question though, if the first hit misses but the second hit connects do you still get the same amount of TP as if it was the first hit or does the second hit give slightly less/more TP? First hit gives normal TP return, subsequent hits give 1%
So if I would miss the first hit, the highest TP return I could get would be 4(with penta) or 2(with RR or KJ)
Server: Bismarck
Game: FFXI
Posts: 33978
By Bismarck.Dracondria 2010-05-29 21:54:02
Second only gives 1 tp x amount of STP you have.
Shiva.Daimos
Server: Shiva
Game: FFXI
Posts: 1202
By Shiva.Daimos 2010-05-29 21:58:26
Bismarck.Dracondria said: Second only gives 1 tp x amount of STP you have. I must not understand what you mean.
For Penta as not /sam 13+1+1+1+1=17
For Penta as /sam 15+1+1+1+1=19
STP Doesn't have an affect on any hits but the first.
Server: Fenrir
Game: FFXI
Posts: 11680
By Fenrir.Nightfyre 2010-05-29 22:04:51
Lakshmi.Mabrook said: That's not what I meant, I mean if you miss the first hit in a multi-hit WS does the second hit act as if it is the first hit and still get the same amount of TP for it or is it less?
If it is the same TP gained then testing any WS will prove nothing as far as accuracy bonuses go.
Edit: Ah okay lol, got it. Has anyone really been far as decided to use even go want to do look more like?
Sorry, couldn't resist... took me like 5 tries to get that first sentence through my head x.x
Shiva.Daimos said: Bismarck.Dracondria said: Second only gives 1 tp x amount of STP you have. I must not understand what you mean.
For Penta as not /sam 13 1 1 1 1=17
For Penta as /sam 15 1 1 1 1=19
STP Doesn't have an affect on any hits but the first. Decimal values? Admittedly this is something I probably should have thought about sooner.
Bahamut.Satanas
Server: Bahamut
Game: FFXI
Posts: 313
By Bahamut.Satanas 2010-05-29 22:09:32
Since the subject changed to ws acc, I would also like to add a question that I don't understand the answer, whenever I do YGK, I sometimes get the TP return of 1-3tp and the YGK dmg is very low. Can anyone explain how or why that happens?
Server: Bahamut
Game: FFXI
Posts: 4554
By Bahamut.Raenryong 2010-05-29 22:10:56
STP does influence all forms of TP gained, including Icarus Wings, getting hit, and subsequent hits of WS.
EDIT: There you're getting a DA proc/Zanshin proc (fairly sure this was confirmed to be possible via Blind Pots + 100% Zanshin GKT, confirm/deny?) without landing the first hit. This hit is roughly 60% as strong as the first, before you consider that the Attack Bonus may not be present.
Server: Asura
Game: FFXI
Posts: 21
By Asura.Nyaarye 2010-05-29 22:11:51
Bahamut.Satanas said: Since the subject changed to ws acc, I would also like to add a question that I don't understand the answer, whenever I do YGK, I sometimes get the TP return of 1-3tp and the YGK dmg is very low. Can anyone explain how or why that happens?
Zanshin.
Bahamut.Satanas
Server: Bahamut
Game: FFXI
Posts: 313
By Bahamut.Satanas 2010-05-29 22:16:08
Quote: STP does influence all forms of TP gained, including Icarus Wings, getting hit, and subsequent hits of WS.
EDIT: There you're getting a DA proc/Zanshin proc (fairly sure this was confirmed to be possible via Blind Pots + 100% Zanshin GKT, confirm/deny?) without landing the first hit. This hit is roughly 60% as strong as the first, before you consider that the Attack Bonus may not be present.
Ooh I see, didn't know Zanshin can activate on ws. Thanks Rae, your so smart :3
Server: Bahamut
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By Bahamut.Raenryong 2010-05-29 22:20:07
I don't know whether it can activate on WS or not! I seem to recall it being shown that it could using 100% Zanshin GKT but am not one hundred percent certain on this. At any rate, the reason for your damage dropping is pretty much the same~
Caitsith.Alriath
Server: Caitsith
Game: FFXI
Posts: 200
By Caitsith.Alriath 2010-05-29 22:21:17
I'll confirm it does, I've seen it happen with missed gekko's.
Pandemonium.Ironguy
Server: Pandemonium
Game: FFXI
Posts: 2600
By Pandemonium.Ironguy 2010-05-29 22:43:20
Caitsith.Alriath said: I'll confirm it does, I've seen it happen with missed gekko's.
...huh.
Caitsith.Alriath
Server: Caitsith
Game: FFXI
Posts: 200
By Caitsith.Alriath 2010-05-29 22:45:30
Gekko missed but damage was still done. It was rare but happened occasionally when I was farming alky bracelets all day.
Edit: I'm looking for some testing on it, but I'm almost positive I've experienced that. Even if it was over a year ago since I've solo'd consistantly on sam.
Phoenix.Haltro
Server: Phoenix
Game: FFXI
Posts: 278
By Phoenix.Haltro 2010-05-29 23:03:13
I'm just throwing this in there, not really related to one certain thing but I always mean to ask. What happens when you WS, but its extremely low damage and you get only 1TP back? It has happened on YGK to me a ton of times (notably the last WS of Meikyo Shisui...), would that be zanshin?
Shiva.Daimos
Server: Shiva
Game: FFXI
Posts: 1202
By Shiva.Daimos 2010-05-29 23:06:53
Phoenix.Haltro said: I'm just throwing this in there, not really related to one certain thing but I always mean to ask. What happens when you WS, but its extremely low damage and you get only 1TP back? It has happened on YGK to me a ton of times, would that be zanshin? Double attack proc'd and first hit missed, but subsequent hits of a WS always have fTP of 1, thus the low damage.
Ok so I have a friend who has amano but they do not have any salvage gear. I'm looking to help them maximize their gear without salvage but I can not find a way for them to gain 6 hit without sacrificing massive ammounts of accuracy/haste. Anyone know what TP builds should be used if you do not have usu? My initial assumption was that she should just use a 7 hit and still stack haste/accuracy.
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