Laws And Rules And Regulations...oh My!

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Laws And Rules and Regulations...oh my!
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 Siren.Mosin
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By Siren.Mosin 2016-02-04 15:56:18
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 Asura.Kingnobody
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By Asura.Kingnobody 2016-02-04 16:00:13
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That explains a lot.
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By fonewear 2016-02-04 18:27:34
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Valefor.Sehachan said: »
*desperate attempt to go back on track*

While I don't agree fully with Hobbes, I agree with one thing he says(and partly Locke): in a state of nature men are in a constant state of conflict due to the ius in omnia(pretty much everyone just thinks about themselves, or their restricted circle); the state of law ensures that rights are equally distributed(as much as possible at least), rather than being overtaken by whoever is strongest and can "eat the weaker".
Now you could say our states are not perfect as equality surely isn't ensured to everyone, and cause the stronger still devours the weaker, but this would lead us into a discussion about philosophy of economic models and I'm not sure if we wanna delve into that, at least in this specific thread(although that is interesting too if people don't go all partisan about it).

But yeah, ideally a state provides us the greatest equality while reducing conflict to a minimum. Ideally...

That is a lot of words to say socialism.
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 Shiva.Nikolce
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By Shiva.Nikolce 2016-02-04 22:04:01
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Asura.Kingnobody said: »
On this forum, Malicious compliance and Passive Aggressive is one and the same.

No they aren't.

not here. not there. not anywhere!

and the second line right there KN that is a classic... it is a green eggs and ham joke...


full text for everyone who hasn't gotten to this book in reading class yet
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 Shiva.Nikolce
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By Shiva.Nikolce 2016-02-05 10:03:49
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Valefor.Sehachan said: »
But yeah, ideally a state provides us the greatest equality while reducing conflict to a minimum. Ideally...

Unfortunately for the poor in the US, this most certainly not the case.

(from earlier in the thread)
upi version

Why would someone plead guilty to a crime they didn't commit?

You have to put yourself in their place and imagine trying to make your case with no resources, no money, no intimate knowledge of the law, a court appointed attorney fresh out of law school with no interest in helping you at all..

And in the best case scenario you're up against a crack team of some of the best attorneys, prosecutors, investigators, district attorney and the entire police force in that particular county. With almost unlimited resources. and each and every one of them has dedicated their lives to putting you behind bars.

If the crime you are being accused of is a federal crime... /scoff
Your chances of winning are somewhere around ZERO
And this is right about the time even atheists start praying for a miracle....and/or cop a plea deal.

You are completely outnumbered, out gunned, out spent, out resourced in every conceivable way. You are ***.

Screwed, glued and tattooed.
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 Valefor.Sehachan
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By Valefor.Sehachan 2016-02-05 10:20:42
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Stop scaring me, I didn't do anything!! *cries*
 Shiva.Nikolce
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By Shiva.Nikolce 2016-02-05 10:38:59
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By Jetackuu 2016-02-05 11:24:48
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Shiva.Nikolce said: »
US
Not to even mention our extremely high incarceration rate. Which largely consists of the poor and minorities (obviously some overlap).

The courts/police have worked the system to make it easy to put poor people behind bars, it's disgusting.
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By Altimaomega 2016-02-05 11:46:26
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Shiva.Nikolce said: »
full text for everyone who hasn't gotten to this book in reading class yet
Spoiler Alert! Click to view.

Nik just went full Cruz!


Shiva.Nikolce said: »
no intimate knowledge of the law
Who's at fault here? Not like this stuff is a secret...
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 Asura.Kingnobody
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By Asura.Kingnobody 2016-02-05 11:57:00
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Altimaomega said: »
Shiva.Nikolce said: »
no intimate knowledge of the law
Who's at fault here? Not like this stuff is a secret...
What he means is having the desire to actually learn.

Then again, it's Bush's the person's fault.
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 Shiva.Nikolce
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By Shiva.Nikolce 2016-02-05 14:13:59
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Altimaomega said: »
Who's at fault here?

that the odds are hopelessly stacked against anyone that goes up against the state in a court of law?

that the poor are woefully uneducated, not only in matters such as credit card/loan interest but also the law?

that minorities and poor are treated unfairly?

me
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 Asura.Kingnobody
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By Asura.Kingnobody 2016-02-05 14:19:36
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Shiva.Nikolce said: »
that the poor are woefully uneducated, not only in matters such as credit card/loan interest but also the law?
And who's fault is that?
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 Shiva.Nikolce
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By Shiva.Nikolce 2016-02-05 14:22:21
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Asura.Kingnobody said: »
Shiva.Nikolce said: »
that the poor are woefully uneducated, not only in matters such as credit card/loan interest but also the law?
And who's fault is that?

MINE!

I'm the me in my post, it's all my fault.
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 Asura.Kingnobody
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By Asura.Kingnobody 2016-02-05 14:23:34
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Shiva.Nikolce said: »
Asura.Kingnobody said: »
Shiva.Nikolce said: »
that the poor are woefully uneducated, not only in matters such as credit card/loan interest but also the law?
And who's fault is that?

MINE!

I'm the me in my post, it's all my fault.
Whatever you say, Atlas.
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By Altimaomega 2016-02-05 14:24:14
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Shiva.Nikolce said: »
that the odds are hopelessly stacked against anyone that goes up against the state in a court of law?

I'm certainly not the one saying we need more laws. Perhaps we should be weeding out bad laws and making our justice system simpler and more sane.
 Shiva.Nikolce
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By Shiva.Nikolce 2016-02-05 14:26:19
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Altimaomega said: »
Not like this stuff is a secret

ok then. how many laws are there in the united states of america?
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 Shiva.Nikolce
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By Shiva.Nikolce 2016-02-05 14:28:59
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 Garuda.Chanti
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By Garuda.Chanti 2016-02-05 14:30:57
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Shiva.Nikolce said: »
Altimaomega said: »
Not like this stuff is a secret
ok then. how many laws are there in the united states of america?
Far too many.
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 Asura.Kingnobody
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By Asura.Kingnobody 2016-02-05 14:31:15
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Shiva.Nikolce said: »
Altimaomega said: »
Not like this stuff is a secret

ok then. how many laws are there in the united states of america?
Impossible to count
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By Altimaomega 2016-02-05 14:39:49
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Shiva.Nikolce said: »
ok then. how many laws are there in the united states of america?
Garuda.Chanti said: »
Far too many.
Asura.Kingnobody said: »
Impossible to count

Altimaomega said: »
Perhaps we should be weeding out bad laws and making our justice system simpler and more sane.
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By Artemicion 2016-02-05 14:45:36
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Altimaomega said: »
Perhaps we should be weeding out bad laws and making our justice system simpler and more sane.

I agree with this up to a degree. And the way I see it is, a vast majority of laws documented are simply there in the obscure happenstance that someone falls under prosecution of them so the book can be thrown at them. Similar to how cell phone instruction booklets will include an addendum telling you not to microwave your phone. While to most of us that seems to be redundant and stupid, I'm sure someone out there did it, and tried to cry foul to the manufacturer about it cause it didn't explicitly tell you not to.

The real matter at hand is how laws are enforced, more so than their countless pages of obscurity, redundancy or otherwise.
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By Altimaomega 2016-02-05 14:51:54
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Which falls under the second part of my sentence.
Altimaomega said: »
making our justice system simpler and more sane.

All laws are worthless unless enforced by competence.
 Shiva.Nikolce
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By Shiva.Nikolce 2016-02-05 15:23:10
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Altimaomega said: »
Shiva.Nikolce said: »
ok then. how many laws are there in the united states of america?
Garuda.Chanti said: »
Far too many.
Asura.Kingnobody said: »
Impossible to count

Altimaomega said: »
Perhaps we should be weeding out bad laws and making our justice system simpler and more sane.

No hold on.

You said
Altimaomega said: »
Who's at fault here? Not like this stuff is a secret..

if it's not a secret then how many laws are there?
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By Altimaomega 2016-02-05 18:30:28
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Shiva.Nikolce said: »
Altimaomega said: »
Shiva.Nikolce said: »
ok then. how many laws are there in the united states of america?
Garuda.Chanti said: »
Far too many.
Asura.Kingnobody said: »
Impossible to count

Altimaomega said: »
Perhaps we should be weeding out bad laws and making our justice system simpler and more sane.

No hold on.

You said
Altimaomega said: »
Who's at fault here? Not like this stuff is a secret..

if it's not a secret then how many laws are there?

Like I said, It's not secret. You are free to look them up at your leisure. I'm sure as hell not going to get in an argument about how many laws exists as that is not only not worth my time, it is different for every state.

Altimaomega said: »
All laws are worthless unless enforced by competence.
This right here is what you should put your focus on. If the laws we have actually got enforced we would have a lot less need for "more laws" and could put more time and energy into getting "worthless laws" off the books.
 Shiva.Nikolce
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By Shiva.Nikolce 2016-02-06 06:37:52
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Altimaomega said: »
Altimaomega said: »
Perhaps we should be weeding out bad laws and making our justice system simpler and more sane.

if it were that simple, then why is your buddy LaVoy Finicum dead?

you claim the laws aren't being enforced. I think he (LaVoy Finicum) would disagree with your assesmant...

do you understand my point now?

we aren't going to weed out any laws, EVER. In fact we are going to do just the opposite. we added 50,000 more new laws last year.

none of the candidates running for president or any other political office are running on a platform of removing laws.

now... why do you suppose that is?

we love the laws, they make us feel safe and we keep demanding more. and if you are the one that gets caught breaking them... well... It sucks to be you then, don't it. better luck next life.

or I liked this one "whose fault is that!?" it's not my fault!, you cry, I didn't do it. I'm not responsible....
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 Shiva.Nikolce
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By Shiva.Nikolce 2016-02-06 06:56:04
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I wonder which one of your "worthless laws" you would remove to stop this from happening

it sucks to be her too
 
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 Siren.Mosin
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By Siren.Mosin 2016-02-06 09:52:54
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Shiva.Nikolce said: »
I wonder which one of your "worthless laws" you would remove to stop this from happening

it sucks to be her too

We should probably quit giving high school dropouts a gun, a crown victoria, and full lisence to *** with the populace.

Police used to be more than tax collection agents with a hard-on for violence...
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 Shiva.Nikolce
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By Shiva.Nikolce 2016-02-06 10:24:34
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Siren.Mosin said: »
We should probably quit giving high school dropouts a gun, a crown victoria, and full license to *** with the populace.
.

idk... seems seemed like she was kind of annoying...
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By Altimaomega 2016-02-06 11:17:34
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Shiva.Nikolce said: »
if it were that simple, then why is your buddy LaVoy Finicum dead?
Because the federal government is breaking laws? Why is this hard?

Shiva.Nikolce said: »
you claim the laws aren't being enforced. I think he (LaVoy Finicum) would disagree with your assesmant...
Yeah, I'm sure he would. Getting murdered probably sucks.

Shiva.Nikolce said: »
do you understand my point now?
NO, must be because you had to burn your degree.

Shiva.Nikolce said: »
we aren't going to weed out any laws, EVER. In fact we are going to do just the opposite. we added 50,000 more new laws last year.
Not with people thinking the way you do.

Shiva.Nikolce said: »
none of the candidates running for president or any other political office are running on a platform of removing laws.
Do I really need to quote every candidate that said they are burning the ACA to the ground?


Shiva.Nikolce said: »
we love the laws, they make us feel safe and we keep demanding more.
Only really stupid people are demanding more laws.

Shiva.Nikolce said: »
or I liked this one "whose fault is that!?" it's not my fault!, you cry, I didn't do it. I'm not responsible....
Huh..

Shiva.Nikolce said: »
I wonder which one of your "worthless laws" you would remove to stop this from happening
Is this really a question?
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