Russian Fighter Jet Shot Down By Turkey

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Russian Fighter Jet Shot Down By Turkey
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By Ramyrez 2015-11-24 14:20:08
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Now seeing an article saying that not Turkish, but Syrian rebels -- aka: those armed by the U.S. -- fired at the Russian helicopter and forced it down into Syrian-government controlled territory, but didn't actually fire it down out of the sky.
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By Jassik 2015-11-24 14:47:52
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Ramyrez said: »
Now seeing an article saying that not Turkish, but Syrian rebels -- aka: those armed by the U.S. -- fired at the Russian helicopter and forced it down into Syrian-government controlled territory, but didn't actually fire it down out of the sky.


Another case of Russia's aggressive tactics biting them in the ***... Putin's already releasing statements on Russian media saying that the incidents are promoting terrorism.
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By Ramyrez 2015-11-24 14:51:30
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Jassik said: »
Another case of Russia's aggressive tactics biting them in the ***... Putin's already releasing statements on Russian media saying that the incidents are promoting terrorism.

It should come as no surprise that a man who spent the Cold War gathering intelligence as a spy wrangler is able to spin everything to his own purposes and devices.

He should have beenIf he were a little better at pretending to be less of a megalomaniac he'd have done well as an American politician.
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By Jassik 2015-11-24 14:53:14
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Ramyrez said: »
Jassik said: »
Another case of Russia's aggressive tactics biting them in the ***... Putin's already releasing statements on Russian media saying that the incidents are promoting terrorism.

It should come as no surprise that a man who spent the Cold War gathering intelligence as a spy wrangler is able to spin everything to his own purposes and devices.

He should have been an American politician.

It's not just Putin, every government has armies of PR people who specialize in turning embarrassment into nationalism/patriotism. Russia is rather good at it, too.
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By Ramyrez 2015-11-24 14:54:19
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Jassik said: »
It's not just Putin, every government has armies of PR people who specialize in turning embarrassment into nationalism/patriotism. Russia is rather good at it, too.

Yes, I know, but the man himself is particular skilled at the art. Though I had edited a bit to better phrase it.

If he wasn't always being a douche it'd almost be admirable, but his obsession with himself is offputting.
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By Jassik 2015-11-24 14:57:24
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Ramyrez said: »
Jassik said: »
It's not just Putin, every government has armies of PR people who specialize in turning embarrassment into nationalism/patriotism. Russia is rather good at it, too.

Yes, I know, but the man himself is particular skilled at the art.

If he wasn't always being a douche it'd almost be admirable, but his obsession with himself is offputting.

It should come as no surprise that political analysts and social scientists all over the world have hypothesized that Putin is autistic. He definitely inspires nationalistic sentiments, but the Russian people aren't as naive as they are portrayed. It's more an evil you know situation combined with a serious heap of pride.
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By Ramyrez 2015-11-24 15:11:26
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Jassik said: »
It should come as no surprise that political analysts and social scientists all over the world have hypothesized that Putin is autistic.

I've read that. But while autism comes in a lot of flavors I feel like that's not entirely accurate. Or, at least, not without comorbidity. Severe narcissistic personality disorder seems more likely to me, but then, I'm also not a forensic psychologist.
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By Jassik 2015-11-24 15:12:59
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I tend to ignore long distance diagnoses, but the shoe seems to fit based on what I've seen. Granted, I do watch more Russian news than most Americans.
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By Garuda.Chanti 2015-11-24 15:16:15
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Ramyrez said: »
Jassik said: »
It should come as no surprise that political analysts and social scientists all over the world have hypothesized that Putin is autistic.
I've read that. But while autism comes in a lot of flavors I feel like that's not entirely accurate. Or, at least, not without comorbidity. Severe narcissistic personality disorder seems more likely to me, but then, I'm also not a forensic psychologist.
There are better words to describe Putin. The most colorful would never make it past the profanity filter though.
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By Ramyrez 2015-11-24 15:18:53
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Garuda.Chanti said: »
Ramyrez said: »
Jassik said: »
It should come as no surprise that political analysts and social scientists all over the world have hypothesized that Putin is autistic.
I've read that. But while autism comes in a lot of flavors I feel like that's not entirely accurate. Or, at least, not without comorbidity. Severe narcissistic personality disorder seems more likely to me, but then, I'm also not a forensic psychologist.
There are better words to describe Putin. The most colorful would never make it past the profanity filter though.

Yeah, but as we were discussing actual DSM-based mental disorders and not more subjective, yet colorful, adjectives, I let those fall by the wayside for now.

Then again, diagnosing personality disorders can be a messy business frequently given often they're just "personalities" until they become pathological, and the severity can frequently be strongly influenced by time and circumstance. Hell, sometimes we even celebrate those disorders when they result in a positive (societally-speaking) result. So...hey, who knows. We're all probably ticking emotional time bombs of some sort or another.
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By Valefor.Sehachan 2015-11-24 15:22:08
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This conversation is a bit perplexing.
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By Garuda.Chanti 2015-11-24 15:22:29
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Its getting better. Or worse. Or both.

Russian Pilot and Marine Sent to Save Him Both Killed Along Turkey/Syria Border
NBC news

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A Russian pilot was killed Tuesday while parachuting from his downed plane and so was a Marine dispatched to save him.

The doomed pilot was one of two Russians who ejected from their aircraft after it was struck by a Turkish missile, Lt. Gen. Sergei Rudskoy said in a statement.

The Marine, whose name also was not released, was aboard one of two Mi-8 helicopters the Russians dispatched to a contested area along the Turkish/Syrian border to find the downed pilots, Rudskoy said in a statement.

"In the course of the operation, one of helicopters was damaged by small arms fire and performed an emergency landing in the neutral area," his statement read. "One contract serviceman — member of Marine Troops — was killed."

Rudskoy said one of the choppers "was destroyed by mortar fire conducted from the territory controlled by illegal armed groups."

The slain Marine and the rest of his crew were evacuated to the Hmeymim airbase, he said. The missing pilots have not yet been found.

Already furious with the Turks for shooting down their warplane, Rudskoy closed by declaring that "contacts with Turkey will be terminated at the military level."

Russia will also beef-up defenses at their Latakia air base in Syria and deploy the guided missile cruiser Moskva off the Syrian coast, Rudskoy vowed.

"We warn that every target posing a potential threat will be destroyed," Rudskoy said during the briefing.

The Turks claim they shot down the Russian warplane after it violated their airspace, and after they repeatedly warned the pilots.

Rudskoy said the Turkish missile struck their plane "over the territory of Syria."

"The objective monitoring data shows that the Russian aircraft did not cross the Turkish borderline," Rudskoy insisted. "Data received from the Syrian Air Defense Forces confirmed this fact as well."

The Russians are the chief backers of Syrian despot Bashar Assad and have been accused of using their military might to wipe out Assad's opponents instead of ISIS.
 
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By Bismarck.Dracondria 2015-11-24 15:58:34
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By Jassik 2015-11-24 16:02:54
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Am I seeing this right? They crossed into Turkish airspace then circled around and came back into Turkish airspace? It's going to be pretty hard to explain that away.
 
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By 2015-11-24 16:03:15
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By Jassik 2015-11-24 16:04:32
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Asura.Floppyseconds said: »
the crash doesn't appear to from that map to be very close to Turkey.

Without a scale for distance, that's pretty hard to determine. You figure a fighter plane could turn around in less than a few KM.
 
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By Jassik 2015-11-24 16:07:19
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Suffice it to say, it seems unlikely that the pilots weren't aware they were in Turkish airspace, especially if they were warned multiple times.
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By Valefor.Sehachan 2015-11-24 16:07:52
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Russia moved its cruiser towards the Latakia coast(Syria/Turkey border).
 
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By 2015-11-24 16:08:06
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By Pantafernando 2015-11-24 16:10:06
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WWIII: YOLO
 
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By Valefor.Sehachan 2015-11-24 16:12:00
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I wouldn't laugh at Russia's actions, things are rather serious.
They claimed all hostile actions will be answered with force. If they start taking down turkish planes it's war.
 
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By 2015-11-24 16:13:09
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By Jassik 2015-11-24 16:16:10
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Valefor.Sehachan said: »
I wouldn't laugh at Russia's actions, things are rather serious.
They claimed all hostile actions will be answered with force. If they start taking down turkish planes it's war.

If Russia picks a fight with a full NATO member, it will be the end of their sovereignty. Russia might have nukes, but I can't believe even Putin is dumb enough to let one fly. In a conventional arms contest, Russia falls pretty far behind pretty quickly.
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By Valefor.Sehachan 2015-11-24 16:18:43
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Yeah but Russia holds almost all the gas resources, so they can cause economic damage to EU(and by proxy the rest of the world), not to mention they have some pretty *** up allies, some of which almost seem to wish there was an excuse to start ***.
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By Jassik 2015-11-24 16:21:22
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I kind of wish Ukraine would shut off the gas long enough to get Europe off their ***. It's been shown repeatedly that Putin and his apologist government can't be reasoned with.
 
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