Government And Christianity

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Ok first and foremost this was a horrible video and that idiot has no *** clue what he is preaching. Islam teaching to behead infidels for not converting? Wrong answer, Islam never preached that, in fact Islam preached a charity for both believers and non believers of Islam.

That guy was full of ***.

Wow, Kevin James' stand-up material has gotten really preachy, lately.

Oh man, soon to be 30,000 jobs openings as guillotine operators.

Actually Islam definitely does mention killing non-believers, or more accurately killing those who refuse to convert to the true religion (which is obviously Islam). Don't worry, Christianity and Judaism had the same rules for the same reason. All three of those religions descent from the same root religion and that religion was quite aggressive in the whole "kill those who refuse to follow your way" idea. Militant Christians used to burn and kill those who refused to convert, and before them the Hebrews would wipe out whole cities of people they deemed were "unclean" and worshiped a "false god".

The reason for all this is these religions center on the concept of the current tribal ruler (King / Caliph / ect..) being divinely appointed by their shared sky god and thus that rulers edicts were considered absolute and above question. What better way to guarantee your uncontested rule then to have the local population believe your above them and connected to their spiritual beliefs. Unfortunately this makes any competing religion a political problem as those followers won't believe your rule is divinely originated and thus may contest you.

The old testament (holy text to all three religions) has a section about this very issue, veiled in religious context it basically says the leader is instructed to burn an unclean city ensuring to kill all the inhabitants because if they were allowed to mingle with your own people they would spread their uncleanliness (their ideas and beliefs).

Old religions are very, very harsh.

They also tended to absorb conquered faiths' holidays and rituals to make converting easier. It's no wonder that the same themes, days, and stories pop up in religious text generation after generation.

Yep, it's all about creating a base of power amongst the population. And to be honest, nearly every culture in the world had celebrations at certain times of the year. There is usually a celebration in spring prior to the first planting as a way of hoping for a good growing year. Then there is a celebration after harvest in thanks for the harvest. There is also a celebration during or immediately after the winter solstice because the days are now getting longer instead of shorter. And financially there is a celebration around when spring starts, which is sometimes rolled into the planting celebration, to indicate that the time of dieing is over with and that things will get better as more food is now available. Winter is traditionally the time when most people die, the weak, young, sick and old are all vulnerable during the time when you have the least food and the weather is the harshest.

So pretty much all holidays center around agriculturally significant events and since most European and Asian agriculture is about the same latitude, you get holidays that are similar enough that assimilation is easy.

conspiracy nuts are funny, a sad kind of funny.


But oh noez, Obama is a Muslim Atheist Kenyan whatever...

/sarcasm

That's right. Islam actually believes you should convert or pay a tax, and if you do neither you are killed.

Depends on the interpretation.

As I explained earlier there is indeed a "kill all unbelievers who refuse to convert" rule, but some interpret that paying respect to Islam and acknowledging it's superiority is sufficient to avoid death. This is where the idea of a tax comes from, by paying money to the Islamic Caliph you are acknowledging his divine appointment and thus the legitimacy and superiority of Islam. You are demonstrating a voluntary subjugation to their rule and as long as you don't proselytize (attempt to openly spread your own religion) then your allowed to continue on with your existence.

Link isn't working for me.

Anyways, as a Muslim I'd like to respond to:

Plenty of misinformation there. I made a thread last year regarding Letter to A-Baghdadi (IS "caliph"), which clearly addresses issues like Jihad, subjugation, etc.

Another thing is that the Caliph (since the Rashidun days) is merely a political leader. He's not believed to be divinely inspired or appointed in any way. In fact, many prominent scholars throughout the history of Muslim dynasties were imprisoned for a political or theological stance in conflict with the Caliph's.

Also, of note: the "Old Testament" isn't a "holy text" in Islam. We believe that God gave Moses the Torah, which was changed over the years by rabbis (just like the Jesus' Injil).

Not really significant, but since Jassik touched on that:
Muslim Holidays. We follow the lunar calender (so it has nothing to do with seasons). Muslims are very careful not to incorporate pagan practices into their religion.

This is where people fail on understanding the old testement.
Context.
The whole story of the Israelites that they were gods people.
Shepards- leaders of the flock.
So what does this mean.
Well if you read both testements you will find the whole story was about the comming of the saviour.
So god chose these people to first prophesise as witness to the messiah then through them his actual coming.
So to keep them godly people he had to keep then on the right path. Which meant some pretty harsh intervention.
Which it states god takes no pleasure in killing the wicked.
It also states that they were to not take any belongings.
And any that did were also killed.
Does that sound like conquering man?
So in essence he had to make these sacrifices for the sake of ALL men. To save us from sin.
The rules of the old testement empowers no one at its core.
Unless you think being morally just is bad for people.
To give examples of so called Christians murdering people other than this means they are not true believers and are extremist.

As for the Islamic faith.
Yes they do advocate the forces conversion of unbelievers or death.
The problem is the Koran itself negates the whole religion as false.
If you ask any Muslim why the Koran was written tey will say because the other books are corrupted.

A more literal translation


So either the quran is telling the truth meaning the quran is a lie or the quran is lying meaning it's not from god.

If I wasn't an atheist before...

I am a believer but I am not perfect nor claim to be. I know that jesus died not only for my sins but for the world's sins as THE only perfect sacrifice that was acceptable by God the holy father. This sacrifice grants us all entry to heaven if we truly acknowledge this. We will never be perfect that's why jesus died for us.

In that regards there is a personal choice we all must make to walk in the light acknowledging his truth for eternity with HIM. Or to walk into darkness for all eternity not acknowledging HIM.

Now for government there should be a separation if there is truly to be a free choice for the people to not be affected endangering there lives and others for not believing. Just don't be Debbie Downers and be like Justin Timberlake hit song cry me a river because of a pledge or song singing about a nations foundation.

GOD BLESS AMERICA

On this note.
The word eternity is a mistranslation of the Hebrew which actually means 'an age'
It states all eyes will see, all ears will open, every knee shall bend.
This can only mean everyone will ask for forgiveness eventually and be with god.
It's just the way you get there that will differ.
Be it through realisation or through a cleansing fire that will kill your old sinful nature through understanding or whatever means he wants. The second death forever of satan/sin.
Jesus didn't die in vain for only a few, he died for all. And god WILL have his way in the end, that's his plan.
Which is why we shouldn't judge others, like the bible states. No one is without sin and we must all take our path of growing and learning in the world.
We should simply spread the good news.

Regarding this.
I was an atheist for 30 years. So I know all the reasons why I disregarded the bible. My wife who I regularly mocked as unintelligent will account to this.
But for some reason one day (curious interest maybe)I decided
To ask god for understanding if he is real and logically try to understand the scriptures. Becoming a father and understanding that position massively improved my understanding.
Not just the bibles. All religious scripture.
And from every view point I started to see sense and logic in the word.
So yeah I can totally appreciate your viewpoint.

You might not know the meaning of the word logic.

Baseless statements. Yes I understand your position.
I used to do exactly the same.

Why am I not surprised? Is it because she has different viewpoints than you?

Finally some substance in this thread !

Religions -- and gods, for that matter -- are humanity-created constructs for the control and domination of others' thoughts, feelings, and loyalties, and to explain away what we do not understand for those unwilling to question and find answers themselves.

That said, religion in and of itself isn't inherantly evil or bad. It's just a social construct that -- especially in this day and age -- is entirely optional, at least in America. And should be entirely optional worldwide.

The problem comes when people try to use it as a license to inject their beliefs into the lives of others, violently, with legislation, or through societal pressures.

Luckily we've almost entirely gotten away from the "violent" aspect in America, other places aren't as lucky. But even here we still have the legislative and societal religious contructs pushing to control our lives.

That would be religious institutions. Religions themselves are born just from fears and uncertainty. It's just philosophy taken further into faith.

Lordgrim you are like that guy preaching heaven and hell and truth and justice on the street corner. Even people who agree with you wish you'd shut the hell up and go away.

...all of which is drummed up by the human mind in response to uncertainty regarding its surroundings. Thus still human-created philosophy. Hence the portion you cut:

This, so much. Even as a Christian I cringe when him and Charlo discuss religion.