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St. Louis Vs. The Police IV: Now it gets real!
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By Leviathan.Comeatmebro 2015-01-23 02:34:25
And when it's your brother or cousin or child that ends up in their path, you might have something different to say besides "Liberals!". i don't think anyone i care about is stupid enough to run around with a gun in hand near a cop, so doubt we'll find out
Bahamut.Kara
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By Bahamut.Kara 2015-01-23 02:42:44
No clue why my photo link went wonky, but let's hope it's fixed now. Anyhow...
I've been in too many stressful situations with family members where the default position is loud dramatic histerics where they run around being the direct opposite of helpful and rational. "Stressful situation" is a bit vague. Hysterics seems to be a response when one feels there's literally nothing they can do. At least, that's probably the only time I could see myself getting like that.
Standing up to get out of the way of potential oncoming cars while fighting the effects of a severe concussion or attempting to flee from the police in a similar condition after having knowingly attracted their attention are really more mental effects than anything else, anyhow. My comparison to lifting a car was a weaker simile than I'd like, but disregarding the pain of shredding one's muscles is the effect I was aiming at, rather than magically turning into Superman because Timmy fell down that damned well again.
It does pay to remember that I'm male, though. A Western-acculturated male is taught not to admit weakness or defeat. I know for a fact that part of why I hoisted myself was because I had ~30 other people, mostly guys in their 20s, around me. This is no doubt also why I managed to barely hold myself together until I got back to my close friends' house. An alleged car thief armed with a gun and in the presence of an accomplice strikes me as having the same HELP I AM TRAPPED IN 2006 PLEASE SEND A TIME MACHINE macho motivation, above and simply not wanting to get caught by the po-po.
Experiences:
car accidents where one or more party was injured myself included, violent confrontations with neighbors or other family members, pack of dogs attacking a neighbor and other dogs, hospitalizations for medical reasons with others causing people to be escorted out of the building, etc
People react to the chemicals coursing through their bodies in different ways. Head injuries affect people in different ways and something that affects you very little could have massive effects on someone else (recently read an article by a fiction writer I read about her head injury versus her friends, I'll post it for you later if you want, by Tami Hoag). Fluctuations in body temperature causes variations in normal reactions from previously rational individuals. Pain -a very subjective feeling- is tolerated at very different levels among people.
Like your situation my sister had a similar experience except she was on a motorcycle and wearing a helmet. She lost control on a turn and slide 50+ft off the road into grass/trees. While she had no serious specific head damage she had severe whiplash. Everyone around her freaked out while she calmly go up, straightened her bike and started walking it home. Refusing an ambulance because it costs too much and going to the ER after she got her bike home.
VIP
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By Odin.Jassik 2015-01-23 02:43:05
Leviathan.Comeatmebro said: »And when it's your brother or cousin or child that ends up in their path, you might have something different to say besides "Liberals!". i don't think anyone i care about is stupid enough to run around with a gun in hand near a cop, so doubt we'll find out
Are they stupid enough to look like someone and have something in their hand? You better believe you and everyone you know is capable of being a suspect and a threat. To believe otherwise is naive at best.
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By Leviathan.Comeatmebro 2015-01-23 02:47:40
it's more likely i'll win the lottery than anyone i know will be killed by a cop for holding a banana
it's not an epidemic, it's a few sensationalized cases in the media.. most of which were in the process of committing crimes
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VIP
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By Odin.Jassik 2015-01-23 02:49:42
I thought the same thing... until it happened. There's a big world of possibilities out there, you might want to shape your views more softly until you have seen more of it.
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By Shiva.Onorgul 2015-01-23 03:40:30
I wonder if there is hidden, more important, issue than police officers behavior today in the US; what if people are just generally becoming less responsive to the law and civility, and not just law enforcers?
There's no way of knowing without a good study because the media can't be depended on. Everything seems to be just a political points scoring exercise these days. Crime rates are down, punishments are up, and police are more aggressive. Fewer arrests are being made but the accused have more incentive to fight back. There's plenty of studies that have been done on this matter.
Leviathan.Comeatmebro said: »if i was in an encounter with an officer, i would immediately make myself as non-threatening as possible(visible hands, cease movement, state compliance) Curious. That's the same motion I take when confronted by a mugger or rapist.
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By Shiva.Onorgul 2015-01-23 03:43:08
(recently read an article by a fiction writer I read about her head injury versus her friends, I'll post it for you later if you want, by Tami Hoag) Please do.
Refusing an ambulance because it costs too much and going to the ER after she got her bike home. Ha! Same reason I refused to call for an ambulance. Isn't it wonderful living a country with healthcare so *** up that we literally risk dying of a brain hemorrhage because we can't afford safe and immediate transport and care?
Bahamut.Kara
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By Bahamut.Kara 2015-01-23 06:27:46
(recently read an article by a fiction writer I read about her head injury versus her friends, I'll post it for you later if you want, by Tami Hoag) Please do.
Tami Hoag When I was a child of ten, I got bucked off a pony and landed on my head in the street. In those days, no one wore helmets when riding anything—horses, bicycles, motorcycles, whatever. I was incredibly lucky not to have been killed. I was doubly lucky in that my head is as hard as a block of granite. I lived in a very rural place with no hospital, no helicopter to whisk me off to a trauma center. We had a cranky old town doctor who was none too happy to be called to his office on the Fourth of July. He came in complaining and smelling of what I would later come to recognize as whiskey. He held fingers up in front of my face and asked me how many I saw. I guessed two, and he sent me home. No X-rays. CT scans and MRIs were the stuff of science fiction. My mother sat in my bedroom that night waking me up every time I started to fall asleep because that was what she had been told to do with someone who had taken a bonk on the head.
The reality of that situation was that I had a concussion, something that was regarded very differently in 1969 than it is today. I had suffered a mild traumatic brain injury (TBI) that was never diagnosed, let alone treated, and I have suffered with the effects of that injury my entire life. While the severity and frequency of my headaches have lessened over the years, I still get them. I have one right now as I write this note. Over the decades I sought help from a number of doctors, none of whom diagnosed me with TBI. My headaches were blamed on allergies, sinuses, eye strain, stress, hormones, and, my personal favorite, my imagination. I don’t deny having a vivid imagination, but I don’t know anyone who would choose to imagine the feeling of an axe cleaving his or her skull for hours and days at a time.
The fact is that many people who suffer mild and even more serious traumatic brain injuries often go undiagnosed and misdiagnosed even today. Closed head injuries are not always obvious. They may present themselves in ways that can be minimized or rationalized away. After all, the person has no outward signs of injury, and they can be very clever in compensating for the cognitive deficits caused by the injury. Every TBI is as unique and mysterious as the brain it impacts. A fellow competitor of mine in the equestrian world took a fall on soft footing that would not have been considered serious by any of us but for the fact that she bumped her head. She was in a coma for weeks and suffered severe physical and cognitive deficits that ended her riding career, which she struggles to overcome to this day, years later. Meanwhile ol’ Ironhead here was thrown with force onto concrete, and the only lasting aftereffects I have are headaches.
The good news is that great strides have been made in the study of TBI in the past ten years. The bad news is the major reason for these advancements: war. The U.S. Department of Defense reported new TBI cases among military personnel in 2013 alone at 27,187, with many of those injuries incurred by deployed active-duty personnel. I have personally witnessed the result of TBI incurred in war by a friend’s husband. The ongoing struggle of the wounded warrior is a heartbreaking thing to watch. The post–brain injury person is often not—and often never will be—the pre–brain injury person remembered by friends and family, and the reality of that is difficult to accept for all involved.
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By Asura.Kingnobody 2015-01-23 08:01:15
Fenrir.Candlejack said: »Law enforcement should never be a case of "shoot first, ask questions later when riots break out over the shooting". Nor should it be a case of "why did the cops stop chasing this criminal when it was obvious that he was a danger to society and needed to be stopped before he killed X number of people" either.
I'm sure you would deny that from ever happening, and the thing is, we will never know what would have happened if the cops stopped chasing the kid like certain posters here advocated....
Lakshmi.Zerowone
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By Lakshmi.Zerowone 2015-01-23 09:28:39
Depends on the area of town.
Siren.Mosin
By Siren.Mosin 2015-01-28 12:41:38
a story.
related to the topic.
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Necro Bump Detected!
[39 days between previous and next post]
Leviathan.Chaosx
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By Leviathan.Chaosx 2015-03-08 07:30:00
Browsing through the P&R section, apparently I missed this thread. Good catch KN. Part V should be coming soon enough, lol.
Leviathan.Chaosx
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By Leviathan.Chaosx 2015-03-12 02:22:36
Quote: St. Louis County Police Chief Jon Belmar says two officers were shot around midnight at a Ferguson, Missouri, protest.
He said a 32-year-old officer from Webster Groves was shot in the face and a 41-year-old officer from St. Louis County was shot in the shoulder.
He says both are conscious.
Belmar says he did not know who shot the officers.
The shots were fired as protesters had gathered following the resignation of Ferguson's embattled Police Chief Thomas Jackson on Wednesday.
Jackson was the sixth employee to resign or be fired after a Justice Department report cleared a white former Ferguson police officer, Darren Wilson, of civil rights charges in the shooting of black 18-year-old Michael Brown in Ferguson last summer. Wilson has since resigned. St. Louis County Police: 2 Officers Shot in Ferguson
By Voren 2015-03-12 02:40:42
I'm giving up on Ferguson, They're entire dept needs to be shut down, taken over by US Marshals, and completely redone with all new staff from top down. This has become ridiculous.
Queue riots and mayhem.
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Leviathan.Chaosx
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By Leviathan.Chaosx 2015-03-12 02:53:35
Part V coming soon enough.
Valefor.Endoq
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By Valefor.Endoq 2015-03-12 04:01:22
This may sound insane, but... Your odds of getting shot by a cop go down dramatically by not breaking the laws/complying with police officers.
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Bismarck.Ihina
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By Bismarck.Ihina 2015-03-12 04:27:51
It'd be nice if it went down to zero instead of just being low.
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By Asura.Kingnobody 2015-03-12 04:36:35
It'd be nice if it went down to zero instead of just being low. You want cops to not defend themselves when attacked?
Cerberus.Tikal
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By Cerberus.Tikal 2015-03-12 04:55:50
Zero isn't reasonable, but 2.97 firearm related deaths per million isn't a number to be proud of. Hell, India, who has more than three times our population has 10% of that. A number in the low hundredths would be preferable, but I'd settle for tenths too.
By Voren 2015-03-12 04:59:56
It'd be nice if it went down to zero instead of just being low. You want cops to not defend themselves when attacked?
I don't think that's what Ihina was implying. I would hope it's more along the lines of the number of idiots fighting cops went down to zero so the number of idiots shot/killed by cops goes down to zero.
Though, we in law enforcement do depend upon stupid people so we have a job, without them I'm qualified to....drive a trash truck, and....flip burgers. Yeah I just made those comparisons /sighs dejectedly.
Leviathan.Chaosx
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By Leviathan.Chaosx 2015-03-12 05:05:43
A cop's livelihood should not depend on there being criminals.
That's actually one of the few important things outlined in DOJ's report.
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By Asura.Kingnobody 2015-03-12 05:11:41
Zero isn't reasonable, but 2.97 firearm related deaths per million isn't a number to be proud of. Hell, India, who has more than three times our population has 10% of that. A number in the low hundredths would be preferable, but I'd settle for tenths too. India also doesn't have citizens actively gunning down cops on a near daily basis.
Either for the dramatic effect, suicide by cop, or as a means to escape from their other crimes.
It has been reported that a cop is gunned down once every 58 hours. When the number of officers are killed goes down, you will see a number of justifiable homicides goes down with it.
Bismarck.Ihina
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By Bismarck.Ihina 2015-03-12 05:12:00
It'd be nice if it went down to zero instead of just being low. You want cops to not defend themselves when attacked?
Well the line was:
Your odds of getting shot by a cop go down dramatically by not breaking the laws/complying with police officers.
Where was the part in that where the police officers are attacked?
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By Asura.Kingnobody 2015-03-12 05:13:06
It'd be nice if it went down to zero instead of just being low. You want cops to not defend themselves when attacked?
Well the line was:
Your odds of getting shot by a cop go down dramatically by not breaking the laws/complying with police officers.
Where was the part in that where the police officers are attacked? Good backpedal, because we all know you were referring to the underlined.
Bismarck.Ihina
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By Bismarck.Ihina 2015-03-12 05:14:21
Zero isn't reasonable, but 2.97 firearm related deaths per million isn't a number to be proud of. Hell, India, who has more than three times our population has 10% of that. A number in the low hundredths would be preferable, but I'd settle for tenths too. India also doesn't have citizens actively gunning down cops on a near daily basis.
Either for the dramatic effect, suicide by cop, or as a means to escape from their other crimes.
It has been reported that a cop is gunned down once every 58 hours. When the number of officers are killed goes down, you will see a number of justifiable homicides goes down with it.
Michelle Malkin is so useful. Female, minority AND she loves sprouting right wing talking points.
Cerberus.Tikal
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By Cerberus.Tikal 2015-03-12 05:15:03
Zero isn't reasonable, but 2.97 firearm related deaths per million isn't a number to be proud of. Hell, India, who has more than three times our population has 10% of that. A number in the low hundredths would be preferable, but I'd settle for tenths too. India also doesn't have citizens actively gunning down cops on a near daily basis.
Either for the dramatic effect, suicide by cop, or as a means to escape from their other crimes.
It has been reported that a cop is gunned down once every 58 hours. When the number of officers are killed goes down, you will see a number of justifiable homicides goes down with it. That's kind of my point. America is sick, it's pervasive, and cops are not above that sickness.
Just to point out though, your above argument assumes that correlation is causation.
Bismarck.Ihina
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By Bismarck.Ihina 2015-03-12 05:15:39
It'd be nice if it went down to zero instead of just being low. You want cops to not defend themselves when attacked?
Well the line was:
Your odds of getting shot by a cop go down dramatically by not breaking the laws/complying with police officers.
Where was the part in that where the police officers are attacked? Good backpedal, because we all know you were referring to the underlined.
The underlined part doesn't make sense by itself.
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By Asura.Kingnobody 2015-03-12 05:16:48
Zero isn't reasonable, but 2.97 firearm related deaths per million isn't a number to be proud of. Hell, India, who has more than three times our population has 10% of that. A number in the low hundredths would be preferable, but I'd settle for tenths too. India also doesn't have citizens actively gunning down cops on a near daily basis.
Either for the dramatic effect, suicide by cop, or as a means to escape from their other crimes.
It has been reported that a cop is gunned down once every 58 hours. When the number of officers are killed goes down, you will see a number of justifiable homicides goes down with it.
Michelle Malkin is so useful. Female, minority AND she loves sprouting right wing talking points. Racebaiting, sexist remarks, and partisan rhetoric. And liberals love to accuse Republicans of doing all 3 of those things.
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By Asura.Kingnobody 2015-03-12 05:17:37
Zero isn't reasonable, but 2.97 firearm related deaths per million isn't a number to be proud of. Hell, India, who has more than three times our population has 10% of that. A number in the low hundredths would be preferable, but I'd settle for tenths too. India also doesn't have citizens actively gunning down cops on a near daily basis.
Either for the dramatic effect, suicide by cop, or as a means to escape from their other crimes.
It has been reported that a cop is gunned down once every 58 hours. When the number of officers are killed goes down, you will see a number of justifiable homicides goes down with it. That's kind of my point. America is sick, it's pervasive, and cops are not above that sickness.
Just to point out though, your above argument assumes that correlation is causation. And yours doesn't?
St. Louis police kills armed African American teen after chase in a stolen car
Quote: Police officers shot dead a teenager armed with a handgun after he got out of a stolen car in St. Louis on Wednesday night, their force said.
The shooting comes five months after a white police officer shot dead an unarmed black teenager in a suburb of the city -- one of a number of racially-charged cases that have prompted protests about police tactics across the United States.
Officers were tailing the car, which was reported stolen in December, when it struck a wall and the engine stopped, St. Louis Police Chief Sam Dotson told reporters.
The 19-year-old passenger was carrying a Tec 9 handgun when he got out of the car to flee, and officers ordered him to drop the weapon, Dotson said. Both officers opened fire when he did not, fatally wounding him, he added.
One of the officers involved in Wednesday's shooting was white and the other black, Dotson said at a press conference broadcast online. The St Louis Post-Dispatch reported that the shot teenager was African-American.
The teenager died in hospital, Dotson said. The driver of the car, who the Post-Dispatch said was also black, was taken into police custody.
The St. Louis area has been racked with tension following the shooting death of unarmed black teenager Michael Brown by white police officer Darren Wilson in August in the suburb of Ferguson.
The New York Times reported on Wednesday that the U.S. Justice Department would soon close its investigation into Brown's death and clear Wilson of any civil rights charges.
Cue round 2 3 4 of riots "peaceful" protests demanding to convict the officers who protected their lives murdered poor innocent thug teenager who stole a car was doing nothing more than walking down a street.
Incoming Al Sharpton/Jesse Jackson inciting racially charged riots conducting peaceful protests.
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