St. Louis Vs. The Police: Part III Apocalypse Nigh

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St. Louis Vs. The Police: Part III Apocalypse Nigh
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By Jetackuu 2014-11-27 19:27:19
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Your definition of "lied" isn't the same as others apparently.

So you're asserting that the cop started a fight with a guy bigger than him while he's sitting in his squad car?
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By Jetackuu 2014-11-27 19:29:00
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Ragnarok.Raenil said: »
Also:


Holy *** ***are you kidding me?
Forgot:

what's your beef with this? That a cop actually got punished for breaking the law?
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By Ragnarok.Raenil 2014-11-27 19:55:03
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Jetackuu said: »
Your definition of "lied" isn't the same as others apparently.

So you're asserting that the cop started a fight with a guy bigger than him while he's sitting in his squad car?
Claiming you were punched 10+ times and had a broken orbital socket when you were actually only punched once and sorta grappled with is a lie! It was an absolute lie and greatly exaggerated what happened.

This alone makes Wilson's testimony completely unreliable in my eyes.


I expect police to conduct themselves in a professional manner. Being a *** to someone for jwalking isn't professional and we don't know what he actually said.

However, I never said he did do this. I just said there's no proof Brown decided to attack a police officer for no *** reason. Just as there's no reliable proof that Wilson didn't start ***either.
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By Ragnarok.Raenil 2014-11-27 19:58:03
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Jetackuu said: »
Ragnarok.Raenil said: »
Also:


Holy *** ***are you kidding me?
Forgot:

what's your beef with this? That a cop actually got punished for breaking the law?
Black cop gets jailed and heavily fined for smacking someones hand with a weapon. White cop gets away with most likely unjustified homicide in which he shot at an unarmed person 12 times, landing 6-8 of those shots. This happened in the same district/jurisdiction/whateverthefuckitscalled.

You're smarter than that, Jet.
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By Shiva.Eboneezer 2014-11-27 20:00:59
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It must have cropped the part out where the passenger was going for the black officer's gun....right? There's a big difference otherwise

*edit* misread comment. How is it "likely unjustified homicide?" Lethal force was justified the minute he struggled for the gun. Witnesses also state that Brown charged back at the officer. What is so hard to understand about self defense? How does this take more than 3 posts for people to understand? And the amount of times he is shot is pretty reasonable for the situation. Do you know how fast you fire off a magazine? You aren't trained to fire, wait and *** any damage that might have occurred, fire again, wait and *** any damage....you fire until the threat is no longer a threat. That's just a few seconds to get all those rounds off.
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By Jetackuu 2014-11-27 20:03:31
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Ragnarok.Raenil said: »
Jetackuu said: »
Your definition of "lied" isn't the same as others apparently.

So you're asserting that the cop started a fight with a guy bigger than him while he's sitting in his squad car?
Claiming you were punched 10+ times and had a broken orbital socket when you were actually only punched once and sorta grappled with is a lie! It was an absolute lie and greatly exaggerated what happened.

This alone makes Wilson's testimony completely unreliable in my eyes.


I expect police to conduct themselves in a professional manner. Being a *** to someone for jwalking isn't professional and we don't know what he actually said.

However, I never said he did do this. I just said there's no proof Brown decided to attack a police officer for no *** reason. Just as there's no reliable proof that Wilson didn't start ***either.

Yeah, we've gathered you're going to believe what you want, but the fact is that he started a fight.
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By Jetackuu 2014-11-27 20:05:16
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Ragnarok.Raenil said: »
Jetackuu said: »
Ragnarok.Raenil said: »
Also:


Holy *** ***are you kidding me?
Forgot:

what's your beef with this? That a cop actually got punished for breaking the law?
Black cop gets jailed and heavily fined for smacking someones hand with a weapon. White cop gets away with most likely unjustified homicide in which he shot at an unarmed person 12 times, landing 6-8 of those shots. This happened in the same district/jurisdiction/whateverthefuckitscalled.

You're smarter than that, Jet.

I don't give a ***if he's black, it's irrelevant, but a cop abused his power and committed a crime, and got jailed for it, got no issue with that.

I also have no issue with a cop shooting a thug who started a fight and attacked a cop, again, don't give a ***what "color" they are.
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By Jetackuu 2014-11-27 20:10:23
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By all accounts (testimony from Wilson and bystanders), the story is accurate up until the point the vehicle incident ended, including the part of Brown assaulting Wilson, got anything else to add?
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By Ragnarok.Raenil 2014-11-27 20:11:00
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If you can show me proof, that isn't Darren Wilson's testimony, that he actually went for the officers gun before it was drawn I will agree with you.

If you can't provide factual evidence then you're idea of how the incident went down is just as factual as mine.
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By Jetackuu 2014-11-27 20:12:59
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Ragnarok.Raenil said: »
If you can show me proof, that isn't Darren Wilson's testimony, that he actually went for the officers gun before it was drawn I will agree with you.

If you can't provide factual evidence then you're idea of how the incident went down is just as factual as mine.
Not at all, I think you're confused as to how it works.
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By Ragnarok.Raenil 2014-11-27 20:13:42
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Jetackuu said: »
By all accounts (testimony from Wilson and bystanders), the story is accurate up until the point the vehicle incident ended, including the part of Brown assaulting Wilson, got anything else to add?
Nope, I haven't seen a single interview that claimed with 100% certainty that Brown was unprovoked. Everyone can only agree Wilson was hit. Which I'm aware happened, because there is PROOF it happened.
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By Shiva.Eboneezer 2014-11-27 20:14:09
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Ragnarok.Raenil said: »
If you can show me proof, that isn't Darren Wilson's testimony, that he actually went for the officers gun before it was drawn I will agree with you.

If you can't provide factual evidence then you're idea of how the incident went down is just as factual as mine.

Please give us a step by step description of how the incident went down in your eyes.
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By Ragnarok.Raenil 2014-11-27 20:15:24
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Jetackuu said: »
Ragnarok.Raenil said: »
If you can show me proof, that isn't Darren Wilson's testimony, that he actually went for the officers gun before it was drawn I will agree with you.

If you can't provide factual evidence then you're idea of how the incident went down is just as factual as mine.
Not at all, I think you're confused as to how it works.
Yes, it is, actually. That is literally how all science is supposed to work. You don't prove something didn't happen, you have to prove something did happen.
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By Jetackuu 2014-11-27 20:17:04
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Ragnarok.Raenil said: »
Jetackuu said: »
By all accounts (testimony from Wilson and bystanders), the story is accurate up until the point the vehicle incident ended, including the part of Brown assaulting Wilson, got anything else to add?
Nope, I haven't seen a single interview that claimed with 100% certainty that Brown was unprovoked. Everyone can only agree Wilson was hit. Which I'm aware happened, because there is PROOF it happened.

Define "unprovoked" if you mean told to get on the ground and shot at when charging at an armed officer that you just assaulted, then sure, he was provoked.

Or are you saying that a man inside a squad car provoked a larger man outside a squad car? Because if you are, then this conversation is over, as I'll have better luck talking to a wall.
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By Jetackuu 2014-11-27 20:17:23
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Ragnarok.Raenil said: »
Jetackuu said: »
Ragnarok.Raenil said: »
If you can show me proof, that isn't Darren Wilson's testimony, that he actually went for the officers gun before it was drawn I will agree with you.

If you can't provide factual evidence then you're idea of how the incident went down is just as factual as mine.
Not at all, I think you're confused as to how it works.
Yes, it is, actually. That is literally how all science is supposed to work. You don't prove something didn't happen, you have to prove something did happen.
Like I said, you're confused, as this isn't how it works. This isn't "science" this is actual events, where unless you have video evidence all you have to go by is physical evidence and testimonies, and that's the record.

A thug was shot, and killed and at the end of the day the world is better off for it, we should be celebrating this officer for his service to society.
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By Jetackuu 2014-11-27 20:21:59
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At the end of the day there's no evidence to support that a wrongful death occurred and that Officer Wilson acted in the line of duty. That's really the end of the story.
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By Odin.Godofgods 2014-11-27 20:26:27
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Ragnarok.Raenil said: »
Jetackuu said: »
Ragnarok.Raenil said: »
If you can show me proof, that isn't Darren Wilson's testimony, that he actually went for the officers gun before it was drawn I will agree with you.

If you can't provide factual evidence then you're idea of how the incident went down is just as factual as mine.
Not at all, I think you're confused as to how it works.
Yes, it is, actually. That is literally how all science is supposed to work. You don't prove something didn't happen, you have to prove something did happen.

careful there.... you might offend the believers'
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By Ragnarok.Raenil 2014-11-27 20:26:31
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Shiva.Eboneezer said: »
Ragnarok.Raenil said: »
If you can show me proof, that isn't Darren Wilson's testimony, that he actually went for the officers gun before it was drawn I will agree with you.

If you can't provide factual evidence then you're idea of how the incident went down is just as factual as mine.

Please give us a step by step description of how the incident went down in your eyes.

1. Wilsons pulled over/alongside Brown and his friend and may or may not have been rude when telling them to get off the road. We don't have any factual evidence concerning the conversation other than Wilson and Browns friends testimony stating this is first contact.

2. Confrontation between Brown and Wilson occurs. Wilson gets punched once and is grappled with. At some point Brown gets shot in the hand at close proximity. When gun was drawn is unknown.

3. Brown makes a run for it because he likely doesn't want to get shot again. Wilson pursues and fires numerous shots that apparently miss. (Had this occurred before 1985 Browns death would have been completely legal.)

4. Brown is now facing Wilson, most likely to give up, and takes 3 bullets in his right arm. Most likely curls over to cover his injured arm and in the act of lowering his head takes two bullets to the head and dies.

There is no evidence proving Brown decided to charge a guy who had already shot him four times at this point.

There is no evidence Brown touched Wilson's gun, much less went for it at all. All we know is Wilson was punched and Brown was shot. Seeing as police decided not to fingerprint Wilson's gun.
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By Ragnarok.Raenil 2014-11-27 20:33:52
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And talking to a wall? Because calling Brown a thug over and over again justifies his death and totally disproves the fact Wilson has no evidence supporting his unreliable testimony.
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By Jetackuu 2014-11-27 22:49:38
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Only if you discount the several witness statements that say he went towards the officer after being fired at, not to mention you're assuming a lot there with no evidence to back it up.

He was approaching (not fleeing) the officer when he was shot dead, so the 1985 law is irrelevant whether it was repealed or not.

The officer shot a potentially armed suspect who was coming at him who already assaulted him after he told him to get on the ground, and the witness statements collaborate that, even with the few dissenting ones that can be established, and going based off that, yes I would have better luck convincing a wall.

His testimony is evidence, whether or not you like it, it is.
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By Ragnarok.Nausi 2014-11-27 23:45:47
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I'm tired of providing justification as to why if someone hits you and reaches for your gun, it's ok to stop them by shooting them.

Can someone please justify for me why it's ok to reach for a cop's gun inside his car and not expect to be shot?

on another note, I really feel dirty when I share the same side of the room as jet. Can someone recommend a method to remedy the dirtiness?
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By Jetackuu 2014-11-27 23:49:10
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Stop touching yourself at night.
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 Ragnarok.Raenil
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By Ragnarok.Raenil 2014-11-27 23:52:49
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There have been just as many witnesses stating otherwise. There was no evidence other than bullet casings, Wilson's slightly reddened face, the car and Browns corpse! Camera's were conveniently out of batteries so crime scene photos weren't taken. Wilson's gun wasn't even taken!

There's no proof of anything other than one guy was punched and the other was shot dead! None!

According to 'eyewitnesses' shots were fired, before Brown "approached" him, when Wilson decided to chase him. Not to mention at that distance Wilson had more than enough time to go for his taser, which he stated he did in fact have on him. He had mace with him as well.

He lied during his testimony which nullified it as viable evidence in my eyes. If you want to take a liars word at face value well, go for it.

EDIT: Feels like I'm just seeing FOX trash being regurgitated in here.
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By Ragnarok.Nausi 2014-11-27 23:53:09
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Oh Jet, For you I am thankful today!
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By Jetackuu 2014-11-27 23:56:03
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Don't need to, but I know there's not enough evidence by any stretch of the imagination to convict him of murder, or even manslaughter without reasonable doubt, so trying to take him to trial is quite frankly a waste of time, money and energy, and would end up in the same result.

I thank that grand jury for getting it over with sooner.

edit: He also stated that he couldn't reach it at the time, apparently you only read what you want to read, and no not "just as many" refute the statements.

That's funny as I don't ever watch Faux.

edit: a person doesn't go for one's taser when they already have their gun drawn and are facing down somebody who is deadly, are you *** mad?
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By Ragnarok.Nausi 2014-11-28 00:03:42
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Ragnarok.Raenil said: »
There have been just as many witnesses stating otherwise. There was no evidence other than bullet casings, Wilson's slightly reddened face, the car and Browns corpse! Camera's were conveniently out of batteries so crime scene photos weren't taken. Wilson's gun wasn't even taken!

There's no proof of anything other than one guy was punched and the other was shot dead! None!

According to 'eyewitnesses' shots were fired, before Brown "approached" him, when Wilson decided to chase him. Not to mention at that distance Wilson had more than enough time to go for his taser, which he stated he did in fact have on him. He had mace with him as well.

He lied during his testimony which nullified it as viable evidence in my eyes. If you want to take a liars word at face value well, go for it.

Well, it's pretty obvious that the members of the jury didn't think he lied. Are they all racists too? The autopsies indicate the first rounds that hit him were fired at very close range which strongly supports the conflict starting inside the car.

If someone knew I had a gun and was trying to attack me, I'd have to assume that they wanted my gun, and i'd have to assume they would be pretty dangerous to me and everyone else if they got it. Nothing about that assumption seems unreasonable to me. Nothing about shooting my attacker to stop him at that point is unreasonable.
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By Jetackuu 2014-11-28 00:20:34
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Ragnarok.Raenil said: »
Claiming you were punched 10+ times and had a broken orbital socket when you were actually only punched once and sorta grappled with is a lie! It was an absolute lie and greatly exaggerated what happened.

This alone makes Wilson's testimony completely unreliable in my eyes.


I expect police to conduct themselves in a professional manner. Being a *** to someone for jwalking isn't professional and we don't know what he actually said.

However, I never said he did do this. I just said there's no proof Brown decided to attack a police officer for no *** reason. Just as there's no reliable proof that Wilson didn't start ***either.
Back to this a bit: he didn't claim that he was punched 10+ times, where did you get that crap from?

It's the police's job to be "***" to people breaking the law and creating dangerous situations for things like walking in the middle of the street, which is illegal.

I'll ask again: how does one "start ***" when they're sitting in a vehicle?
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By Voren 2014-11-28 01:06:30
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Jetackuu said: »
I'll ask again: how does one "start ***" when they're sitting in a vehicle?

It's easy, roll down window, open mouth, make a statement, wait.
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 Odin.Jassik
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By Odin.Jassik 2014-11-28 01:16:12
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Ragnarok.Nausi said: »
I'm tired of providing justification as to why if someone hits you and reaches for your gun, it's ok to stop them by shooting them.

Can someone please justify for me why it's ok to reach for a cop's gun inside his car and not expect to be shot?

on another note, I really feel dirty when I share the same side of the room as jet. Can someone recommend a method to remedy the dirtiness?

Since the gun was never fingerprinted and only the officer's testimony states that he was reaching for the weapon, the issue isn't whether he would be justified if Brown reached for his gun, but whether he actually did. Similar holes of doubt fit into virtually every aspect. Several people stated that Wilson continued to fire as Brown was fleeing. If that's the be believed, if he'd landed any of those shots, there would likely be a different outcome. I would even go as far as to say that is likely that Brown did reach for his gun, if only in as much as to prevent the officer from aiming it at him, but likely to disarm him. BUT, there is no solid evidence to say anything other than he was shot in the thumb at close range.

The point is that people are taking the officer's testimony as gospel, even though it's been inconsistent, and won't concede there is room for doubt. I believe there was sufficient evidence to indict him, let him have his day in court. I've looked at as much of the released evidence as I can stomach (a couple hundred pages so far) and the only thing I can say conclusively is that Wilson did a very poor job of de-escalating the situation and at least twice put himself and Brown in a more dangerous situation.

I don't know if his actions are in line with their policies or if those policies are good, but whatever the case, something beyond Brown being a hoodlum caused his death.

Voren said: »
Jetackuu said: »
I'll ask again: how does one "start ***" when they're sitting in a vehicle?

It's easy, roll down window, open mouth, make a statement, wait.

I don't think enough emphasis is put on what provocation is typical in these kinds of situations. I've had officers approach me in very disrespectful manners that could easily provoke a response from someone with a hotter temperament. Are they trained to try and spark aggression in people as an investigative tactic?
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By Voren 2014-11-28 01:17:19
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Ragnarok.Raenil said: »
There have been just as many witnesses stating otherwise. There was no evidence other than bullet casings, Wilson's slightly reddened face, the car and Browns corpse! Camera's were conveniently out of batteries so crime scene photos weren't taken. Wilson's gun wasn't even taken!

There's no proof of anything other than one guy was punched and the other was shot dead! None!

According to 'eyewitnesses' shots were fired, before Brown "approached" him, when Wilson decided to chase him. Not to mention at that distance Wilson had more than enough time to go for his taser, which he stated he did in fact have on him. He had mace with him as well.

He lied during his testimony which nullified it as viable evidence in my eyes. If you want to take a liars word at face value well, go for it.

EDIT: Feels like I'm just seeing FOX trash being regurgitated in here.

If someone goes for my gun once I'm justified to use lethal force. Courts have upheld that if an individual attempts to get a gun away from an officer once they will try again. There's your justification.

Mace isn't used by every department because it has a Murphy's Law effect.

Taser is no longer applicable because Brown posed a great enough threat to justify lethal force.

Eyewitnesses are unreliable at best. You give me ten people and I'll have fifteen different statements of the events. I quit trusting witnesses years ago. If you're not involved in the incident STFU and GTFO.
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