Scottish Independence (?)

Eorzea Time
 
 
 
Language: JP EN FR DE
Version 3.1
New Items
users online
Forum » Everything Else » Politics and Religion » Scottish Independence (?)
Scottish Independence (?)
First Page 2 3 4 5 6
 Leviathan.Veratos
Offline
Server: Leviathan
Game: FFXI
user: Veratos
Posts: 190
By Leviathan.Veratos 2014-09-12 16:24:10
Link | Quote | Reply
 
Sorry Conagh you're not the only scottish person here :P

But yes I agree independence is a stupid quest, Personally things are fine the way they are. :)
 Siren.Mosin
Offline
Server: Siren
Game: FFXI
user: BKiddo
By Siren.Mosin 2014-09-16 14:09:35
Link | Quote | Reply
 
they voting on this today or tomorrow? what's going on?
 Bismarck.Ramyrez
Offline
Server: Bismarck
Game: FFXI
user: Ramyrez
Posts: 4746
By Bismarck.Ramyrez 2014-09-16 14:12:55
Link | Quote | Reply
 
Leviathan.Chaosx said: »
Quote:
As the referendum on Scottish independence approaches, the “Yes” campaign is receiving an unexpected boost – from Russian nationalists.

Supporters of the Kremlin’s annexation of Crimea have latched on to Alex Salmond’s bid to leave Britain as a parallel to the struggle of ethnic Russians in Ukraine to break with a supposedly bullying overlord in Kiev.

With resentment running high against Britain as a crusader for tough sanctions against Moscow over its patronage of the separatist rebels in Ukraine, blogs in Russia have become flooded with calls for Scottish “freedom”.
Source

Much like the Yes campaign appears to be more interested in the symbolic split than the inevitable pragmatic fallout, these Russian supporters really don't give a damn about it, they just see it as a way to spin an event elsewhere on the globe to their own cause.
 Leviathan.Chaosx
Offline
Server: Leviathan
Game: FFXI
user: ChaosX128
Posts: 20284
By Leviathan.Chaosx 2014-09-16 15:03:17
Link | Quote | Reply
 
Siren.Mosin said: »
they voting on this today or tomorrow? what's going on?
Thursday I think.
[+]
 Cerberus.Tidis
MSPaint Winner
Offline
Server: Cerberus
Game: FFXI
user: tidis
Posts: 3927
By Cerberus.Tidis 2014-09-16 16:36:54
Link | Quote | Reply
 
Thursday is voting day in the UK.
[+]
 Caitsith.Zahrah
Offline
Server: Caitsith
Game: FFXI
user: zahrah
By Caitsith.Zahrah 2014-09-16 16:39:33
Link | Quote | Reply
 
Cerberus.Tidis said: »
Thursday is voting day in the UK.

Any thoughts from across the pond?
[+]
 Cerberus.Tidis
MSPaint Winner
Offline
Server: Cerberus
Game: FFXI
user: tidis
Posts: 3927
By Cerberus.Tidis 2014-09-16 16:50:55
Link | Quote | Reply
 
Caitsith.Zahrah said: »
Cerberus.Tidis said: »
Thursday is voting day in the UK.

Any thoughts from across the pond?
Hmm I'm not particularly well educated on the whole Scottish Independence debate but I would worry that Scottish independence seems to be based on a lot of assumptions, especially regarding EU membership, trade deals and a currency union that could very well not happen.

If I could vote it would be a No vote, but as I can't I'll just sit and watch.
[+]
 Valefor.Sehachan
Guide Maker
Offline
Server: Valefor
Game: FFXI
user: Seha
Posts: 24219
By Valefor.Sehachan 2014-09-16 16:53:32
Link | Quote | Reply
 
Well just today Cameron said that even if the 'no' wins they're willing to give Scotland more autonomy(among some other passive-aggressive statements). And secessionists are enraged cause this diminishes the power of chosing yes.
[+]
 Bismarck.Leneth
Offline
Server: Bismarck
Game: FFXI
By Bismarck.Leneth 2014-09-16 16:55:22
Link | Quote | Reply
 
Caitsith.Zahrah said: »
Cerberus.Tidis said: »
Thursday is voting day in the UK.

Any thoughts from across the pond?
Whatever the outcome will be, they'll need to sit together and work out a new way of treating each other.

It's a bit ironic that the same arguments will be repeated in a few years with a swap of roles when it comes to the Brittish - EU referendum.
[+]
 Leviathan.Xsoahc
Offline
Server: Leviathan
Game: FFXI
user: ChaosX128
Posts: 107
By Leviathan.Xsoahc 2014-09-16 17:01:37
Link | Quote | Reply
 
The Scots are a contentious bunch.
 Valefor.Sehachan
Guide Maker
Offline
Server: Valefor
Game: FFXI
user: Seha
Posts: 24219
By Valefor.Sehachan 2014-09-16 17:02:34
Link | Quote | Reply
 
Fenrir.Atheryn said: »
I believe that every person has the right to be a member of an independent nation, to have sovereignty, to live in peace and to enjoy equality
Lol, coming from NK?
 Cerberus.Conagh
Offline
Server: Cerberus
Game: FFXI
user: onagh
Posts: 3189
By Cerberus.Conagh 2014-09-16 17:03:55
Link | Quote | Reply
 
Valefor.Sehachan said: »
Well just today Cameron said that even if the 'no' wins they're willing to give Scotland more autonomy(among some other passive-aggressive statements). And secessionists are enraged cause this diminishes the power of chosing yes.

This was the idea.
 Bahamut.Ravael
Offline
Server: Bahamut
Game: FFXI
user: Ravael
Posts: 13622
By Bahamut.Ravael 2014-09-16 17:05:24
Link | Quote | Reply
 
Caitsith.Zahrah said: »
Cerberus.Tidis said: »
Thursday is voting day in the UK.

Any thoughts from across the pond?

I certainly don't understand the complexities of what's going on, but if they're set on independence, I would think something like a multi-year phase out plan might make the transition easier. They could take over responsibilities in smaller chunks until they achieve full secession by a given date.
Offline
Posts: 4027
By Blazed1979 2014-09-16 17:31:25
Link | Quote | Reply
 
Scotland should form a union with Ireland.
One look at famous Scots of Irish origins (Irish-Scots) and the potential is clear:

Famous Irish-Scots:
1. Sean Connery
2. Gerard Butler
3. Bill Connolly
4. Frankie" Boyle
That and there would be no English in the new union.
Just imagine that :)

What say you scots, a union by the Children of MacMurrough and The Bruce?
You also owe us a debt, we did save Braveheart

Proof

The English openly mock you scots on their national media
Proof

on a more serious note, England stands to loose much more than Scotland should the leave the union.
 Lakshmi.Raerie
Offline
Server: Lakshmi
Game: FFXI
user: Rae
Posts: 98
By Lakshmi.Raerie 2014-09-16 18:15:42
Link | Quote | Reply
 
I don't know too much about the political situation surrounding this other than the fact that a more liberal Scotland is not feeling represented in Parliament which is sided toward the more conservative southern Britain. If Scotland does become independent, does the SNP have any solid policies in mind?
Offline
Posts: 41
By marivell 2014-09-17 06:38:38
Link | Quote | Reply
 
We had 2 referendums in Québec (1980 and 1995) about independence, first ended 60% no agaisnt 40% yes, the second ended 51% versus 49% yes.

Thing is... I'm not an expert either at the Scottish situation, but as far as I'm concerned, even tho quebeckers are a lot different from the rest of the canadian residents (aka language, for a start, we have our own civil laws, education system etc) I still think my province isn't ready to make a move towards independence, it is a huge step to take and people needs to vote with their head too.

That being said, I wish them luck, and hope they won't end up like we did, torn apart from inside and forever separated in 2 groups of independentists and loyalists.
[+]
 Bahamut.Loch
Offline
Server: Bahamut
Game: FFXI
user: Algren
Posts: 2
By Bahamut.Loch 2014-09-17 06:49:57
Link | Quote | Reply
 
I live in Scotland and will be voting yes. The current system is completely broken.

In my lifetime Scotland has had no impact on a general election. Meaning the government the majority of England votes for its what controls the UK

Although Scotland has a devolved government. Westminster has the power to take powers away from us without our say.

The currency issue doesnt bother me one bit, is happily use euros to live in a democratic society.

And Scotland is not reliant on oil it is 15% of gdp. Norways is something like 30% and you wouldn't say they are successful.

We also would have more oil but Westminster moved the maritime border in the 90s essentially giving England 6000 square miles of the North Sea,
[+]
Offline
Posts: 8
By hepatitisuk 2014-09-17 06:51:59
Link | Quote | Reply
 
You're so *** if the yes vote goes through you ain't even thinking this through properly.
 Valefor.Sehachan
Guide Maker
Offline
Server: Valefor
Game: FFXI
user: Seha
Posts: 24219
By Valefor.Sehachan 2014-09-17 06:54:17
Link | Quote | Reply
 
Bahamut.Loch said: »
happily use euros to live in a democratic society.
Beware of what you wish for.
[+]
 Bahamut.Loch
Offline
Server: Bahamut
Game: FFXI
user: Algren
Posts: 2
By Bahamut.Loch 2014-09-17 06:57:02
Link | Quote | Reply
 
Valefor.Sehachan said: »
Bahamut.Loch said: »
happily use euros to live in a democratic society.
Beware of what you wish for.

Was just an example, the truth is we don't know for sure what we would use, Westminster refused to pre negotiate terms before the vote, and even after there are still 18 months of negotiations before independence would actually happen.
 Quetzalcoatl.Maldini
Offline
Server: Quetzalcoatl
Game: FFXI
user: maldini
Posts: 303
By Quetzalcoatl.Maldini 2014-09-17 06:58:21
Link | Quote | Reply
 
The smaller a nation, the more impact the average citizen has on its policies, the less wealth disparity there is, the better off everyone is.
 Valefor.Sehachan
Guide Maker
Offline
Server: Valefor
Game: FFXI
user: Seha
Posts: 24219
By Valefor.Sehachan 2014-09-17 06:59:02
Link | Quote | Reply
 
Let's go back to live in independent villages!
[+]
 Leviathan.Chaosx
Offline
Server: Leviathan
Game: FFXI
user: ChaosX128
Posts: 20284
By Leviathan.Chaosx 2014-09-17 07:22:11
Link | Quote | Reply
 
Bahamut.Loch said: »
Valefor.Sehachan said: »
Bahamut.Loch said: »
happily use euros to live in a democratic society.
Beware of what you wish for.

Was just an example, the truth is we don't know for sure what we would use, Westminster refused to pre negotiate terms before the vote, and even after there are still 18 months of negotiations before independence would actually happen.
Go for gold and silver coins of various weights. It'll never lose purchasing power especially since the ECB is pushing through some QE of their own.
 Bismarck.Bloodbeat
Offline
Server: Bismarck
Game: FFXI
user: bloodbeat
Posts: 420
By Bismarck.Bloodbeat 2014-09-17 07:23:10
Link | Quote | Reply
 
There's a lot of reasons for and against Scottish independence, but ultimately the entire UK is suffering under the mismanagement of an inept, unelected government. Scotland could be free from that if they choose to.
It's all well and good citing a load of commercial and political disadvantages, but the results of poor government policy are what are really, immediately felt by the public.
If it were me, I'd vote for independence.
[+]
 Bahamut.Kara
Offline
Server: Bahamut
Game: FFXI
user: Kara
Posts: 3544
By Bahamut.Kara 2014-09-17 07:27:29
Link | Quote | Reply
 
Quetzalcoatl.Maldini said: »
The smaller a nation, the more impact the average citizen has on its policies, the less wealth disparity there is, the better off everyone is.
The smaller the nation the less bargaining power they have, as well.

Scotland wants to immediately join the EU and NATO, but what are they bringing to the table?

Scotland will have to:

1. Figure what they are using for currency.
1a. If they use the pound they will probably have to do what Hong Kong does and keep 100%+ GDP in reserve. Opportunity cost.
1b. The EU has stated that the euro is not an option at this time
1c. Create a currency and base it on a basket of other currencies or some type of mixed basket, which will create different problems

2. Negotiate trade treaties to countries it regulary exports to and imports from. They will be starting from a lower bargaining posistion.

3. Legal system: SNP wants to change current tax rates and tax flow. That doesn't happen over night

4. How will the oil reserve be split?

5. How will the debt work out from the 2008 crisis?

6. Military bases and soliders. SNP was talking about using UK soliders to fulfill one of the requirements for NATO membership. They also want all nuclear weapons gone. Yes, other NATO countries don't host weapons, but what is Scotland going to be giving NATO in return for not doing this?

7. Businesses do not like uncertainity. Many have already said they will be moving headquaters South. Supermarkets and other stores have said prices will increase. Currently they spread costs across the UK, that will not continue if it splits. And rightly so, there will be different laws, currencies(?), taxes, etc in place

I've read the economic portion of the white paper SNP put out. There is a lot of "good feels" but not a lot of concrete plans. They say there will have to be voting after a "yes" occurs on how scotland moves forward based on plans submitted.

That sounds great, very democratic. However, in realty, that means a lot of uncertainity for the forseeable future.
[+]
 Valefor.Sehachan
Guide Maker
Offline
Server: Valefor
Game: FFXI
user: Seha
Posts: 24219
By Valefor.Sehachan 2014-09-17 07:29:47
Link | Quote | Reply
 
Bahamut.Kara said: »
There is a lot of "good feels" but not a lot of concrete plans
Pretty much every secessionist movement around.
[+]
 Leviathan.Xsoahc
Offline
Server: Leviathan
Game: FFXI
user: ChaosX128
Posts: 107
By Leviathan.Xsoahc 2014-09-17 07:30:17
Link | Quote | Reply
 
Never fear the unknown, embrace it!
 Bismarck.Bloodbeat
Offline
Server: Bismarck
Game: FFXI
user: bloodbeat
Posts: 420
By Bismarck.Bloodbeat 2014-09-17 07:32:20
Link | Quote | Reply
 
Well like I said, there's the circumstances of future independence versus the present day circumstances of the coalition government's rule.
Bedroom tax, benefit caps, one of the lowest minimum wages in Europe, an increasingly privatised NHS and education system.
They'll need to find money to subsidise their free universities and NHS prescriptions, but they may find that's balanced when their economy isn't being wider distributed.
[+]
 Leviathan.Chaosx
Offline
Server: Leviathan
Game: FFXI
user: ChaosX128
Posts: 20284
By Leviathan.Chaosx 2014-09-17 07:51:27
Link | Quote | Reply
 
Don't forget to only accept Renminbi, Rubles, or gold for oil as it's the trendy thing to do.

Even Saudi Arabia is considering the switch. Saudi's are on the verge of joining Russia in non-dollar oil sales
 Cerberus.Spirachub
Offline
Server: Cerberus
Game: FFXI
user: Spiraboo
Posts: 516
By Cerberus.Spirachub 2014-09-17 07:53:53
Link | Quote | Reply
 
Bismarck.Bloodbeat said: »
Well like I said, there's the circumstances of future independence versus the present day circumstances of the coalition government's rule.
Bedroom tax, benefit caps, one of the lowest minimum wages in Europe, an increasingly privatised NHS and education system.
They'll need to find money to subsidise their free universities and NHS prescriptions, but they may find that's balanced when their economy isn't being wider distributed.

Really? I did a quick google, and it seems to be on the high side whether it was euro/month or PPS. (source)

They'll also need to find money to fund the lower taxations, encourage businesses to come and invests in scotland (the youngsters left for a reason, and independence doesn't immediately make them come back - jobs doesn't get created overnight). The Barnett formula is still favouring Scotland over the rest of the UK. Unless Scotland makes the big ratio of the income of UK (which I doubt they do, but I can't be bothered to google it right now), they will probably end up with less money per head than they do right now.

Independence right now is silly. Go for devo-max, utilise that pocket money england is giving you to strengthen Scotland as a nation and try again in a few years is a much better solution.
[+]