|
|
Obamacare was just dealt a major loss in court.
VIP
Server: Odin
Game: FFXI
Posts: 9534
By Odin.Jassik 2014-07-23 15:13:32
Wah! I don't want to be responsible for my own costs....
Can't say I've ever met a person who actually says stuff like that. It's one of the most common strawman arguments, and the people who use it are more often than not sucking the teat just as hard as their fictitious freeloader counterparts.
[+]
Server: Asura
Game: FFXI
Posts: 34187
By Asura.Kingnobody 2014-07-23 15:14:31
@the 7k healthcare thing: it's not affordable either way for the majority of people, it's ludicrous to assert as such and it only shows your disconnect king. But it is still perfectly ok for those people to spend 100% of their disposable income on the latest gadgets and other niceties of life, instead of paying their bills.
Yeah, you do find that ok, because you follow up with this little jem:
Healthcare is a societal problem, and it should be free, like basic housing and basic food.
Why stop there? Let's add basic cell phone service, basic cable, basic internet, basic vehicles with basic gas, basic clothing, basic housekeeping services, basic gardening services, including pool services, basic vacations, basic child care services and basic grocery delivery services.
All free to you, we will just charge it to somebody who actually did something more with his/her life than a high school dropout.
Face it, you want everything free and done for you without any effort on your part. Your post just proved it.
Server: Asura
Game: FFXI
Posts: 34187
By Asura.Kingnobody 2014-07-23 15:15:16
Wah! I don't want to be responsible for my own costs....
Can't say I've ever met a person who actually says stuff like that. It's one of the most common strawman arguments, and the people who use it are more often than not sucking the teat just as hard as their fictitious freeloader counterparts. Jet just proved you wrong, you know that, right?
VIP
Server: Odin
Game: FFXI
Posts: 9534
By Odin.Jassik 2014-07-23 15:17:18
Wah! I don't want to be responsible for my own costs....
Can't say I've ever met a person who actually says stuff like that. It's one of the most common strawman arguments, and the people who use it are more often than not sucking the teat just as hard as their fictitious freeloader counterparts. Jet just proved you wrong, you know that, right?
I'd like to know how, exactly, he proved me wrong? You realize that the public is responsible for healthcare costs in a single payer system, right? Just because the check comes from the government doesn't mean they are generating the money out of thin air.
Server: Asura
Game: FFXI
Posts: 34187
By Asura.Kingnobody 2014-07-23 15:22:50
Wah! I don't want to be responsible for my own costs....
Can't say I've ever met a person who actually says stuff like that. It's one of the most common strawman arguments, and the people who use it are more often than not sucking the teat just as hard as their fictitious freeloader counterparts. Jet just proved you wrong, you know that, right?
I'd like to know how, exactly, he proved me wrong? You realize that the public is responsible for healthcare costs in a single payer system, right? Just because the check comes from the government doesn't mean they are generating the money out of thin air. You stated that you never heard of anyone who doesn't want to be responsible for their own costs, and yet, Jet just stated that he wants food, housing, and healthcare for free.
 Cerberus.Pleebo
Server: Cerberus
Game: FFXI
Posts: 9720
By Cerberus.Pleebo 2014-07-23 15:23:52
Wah! I don't want to be responsible for my own costs.... Uh... I've paid for my own insurance for quite some time now. I rarely use it for anything other than routine checkups so I imagine I've paid for other people's costs quite often yet this concept is somehow unacceptable when it comes to socialized medicine.
Your post just proved it. You just scribbled a bunch of garbage, attributed it to another poster, and then announced yourself the winner. Good job.
[+]
By Jetackuu 2014-07-23 15:27:00
You stated that you never heard of anyone who doesn't want to be responsible for their own costs, and yet, Jet just stated that he wants the things necessary for life, which we're guaranteed the right to, for free. ftfy
Server: Asura
Game: FFXI
Posts: 34187
By Asura.Kingnobody 2014-07-23 15:27:34
Uh... I've paid for my own insurance for quite some time now. I rarely use it for anything other than routine checkups so I imagine I've paid for other people's costs quite often yet this concept is somehow unacceptable when it comes to socialized medicine. Yet, you fail to realize what insurance is.
Well, to be honest, we shouldn't be surprised that you don't know.
VIP
Server: Odin
Game: FFXI
Posts: 9534
By Odin.Jassik 2014-07-23 15:33:13
Wah! I don't want to be responsible for my own costs....
Can't say I've ever met a person who actually says stuff like that. It's one of the most common strawman arguments, and the people who use it are more often than not sucking the teat just as hard as their fictitious freeloader counterparts. Jet just proved you wrong, you know that, right?
I'd like to know how, exactly, he proved me wrong? You realize that the public is responsible for healthcare costs in a single payer system, right? Just because the check comes from the government doesn't mean they are generating the money out of thin air. You stated that you never heard of anyone who doesn't want to be responsible for their own costs, and yet, Jet just stated that he wants food, housing, and healthcare for free.
Free is relative, bubba. You should learn how those things work.
[+]
VIP
Server: Odin
Game: FFXI
Posts: 9534
By Odin.Jassik 2014-07-23 15:35:00
Uh... I've paid for my own insurance for quite some time now. I rarely use it for anything other than routine checkups so I imagine I've paid for other people's costs quite often yet this concept is somehow unacceptable when it comes to socialized medicine. Yet, you fail to realize what insurance is.
Well, to be honest, we shouldn't be surprised that you don't know.
Insurance is a system built on a risk pool, that means, by definition, you will always either be paying for someone else or not paying for yourself. Do, please, continue to try and make points you don't understand.
[+]
Server: Asura
Game: FFXI
Posts: 34187
By Asura.Kingnobody 2014-07-23 15:35:43
Wah! I don't want to be responsible for my own costs....
Can't say I've ever met a person who actually says stuff like that. It's one of the most common strawman arguments, and the people who use it are more often than not sucking the teat just as hard as their fictitious freeloader counterparts. Jet just proved you wrong, you know that, right?
I'd like to know how, exactly, he proved me wrong? You realize that the public is responsible for healthcare costs in a single payer system, right? Just because the check comes from the government doesn't mean they are generating the money out of thin air. You stated that you never heard of anyone who doesn't want to be responsible for their own costs, and yet, Jet just stated that he wants food, housing, and healthcare for free.
Free is relative, bubba. You should learn how those things work. His definition, as he has so graciously supplied, is that he doesn't want to pay for it. So, in essence, it will be free to him, and it will cost somebody else his expenses.
Want to keep trying to white knight him?
By Jetackuu 2014-07-23 15:38:23
I actually didn't give a definition, but continue thinking you've won when you're already limping away.
VIP
Server: Odin
Game: FFXI
Posts: 9534
By Odin.Jassik 2014-07-23 15:38:45
Wah! I don't want to be responsible for my own costs....
Can't say I've ever met a person who actually says stuff like that. It's one of the most common strawman arguments, and the people who use it are more often than not sucking the teat just as hard as their fictitious freeloader counterparts. Jet just proved you wrong, you know that, right?
I'd like to know how, exactly, he proved me wrong? You realize that the public is responsible for healthcare costs in a single payer system, right? Just because the check comes from the government doesn't mean they are generating the money out of thin air. You stated that you never heard of anyone who doesn't want to be responsible for their own costs, and yet, Jet just stated that he wants food, housing, and healthcare for free.
Free is relative, bubba. You should learn how those things work. His definition, as he has so graciously supplied, is that he doesn't want to pay for it. So, in essence, it will be free to him, and it will cost somebody else his expenses.
Want to keep trying to white knight him?
I'm not white-knighting anyone. If you assign a value to things that should be free, you're responsible for the cost of that statement. Basic housing and healthcare are never free, even when they're free. Even in "capitalist" countries that provide housing and healthcare, the cost is borne by the public. You still have no grasp of the way these systems work, and thus, can't pretend you understand what the meaning of "free" actually is. It's a wonder our perfect education system failed you so badly.
Server: Asura
Game: FFXI
Posts: 34187
By Asura.Kingnobody 2014-07-23 15:39:02
Uh... I've paid for my own insurance for quite some time now. I rarely use it for anything other than routine checkups so I imagine I've paid for other people's costs quite often yet this concept is somehow unacceptable when it comes to socialized medicine. Yet, you fail to realize what insurance is.
Well, to be honest, we shouldn't be surprised that you don't know.
Insurance is a system built on a risk pool, that means, by definition, you will always either be paying for someone else or not paying for yourself. Do, please, continue to try and make points you don't understand. At least you understand most of it.
But you forgot to mention that insurance itself is a risk. The premiums paid but not used for the year is the cost associated with risk of not being sick for the year.
Well, that was the old system. The new system is more in line with your definition where everyone pays into a pool and the risk is on the insurance itself, not on the person, since they have no choice but to buy into a product. But we are all perfectly ok with that, aren't we? Being forced by law to purchase a product we may or may not use.
VIP
Server: Odin
Game: FFXI
Posts: 9534
By Odin.Jassik 2014-07-23 15:40:10
Uh... I've paid for my own insurance for quite some time now. I rarely use it for anything other than routine checkups so I imagine I've paid for other people's costs quite often yet this concept is somehow unacceptable when it comes to socialized medicine. Yet, you fail to realize what insurance is.
Well, to be honest, we shouldn't be surprised that you don't know.
Insurance is a system built on a risk pool, that means, by definition, you will always either be paying for someone else or not paying for yourself. Do, please, continue to try and make points you don't understand. At least you understand most of it.
But you forgot to mention that insurance itself is a risk. The premiums paid but not used for the year is the cost associated with risk of not being sick for the year.
Well, that was the old system. The new system is more in line with your definition where everyone pays into a pool and the risk is on the insurance itself, not on the person, since they have no choice but to buy into a product. But we are all perfectly ok with that, aren't we? Being forced by law to purchase a product we may or may not use.
The system is the same, and you're already paying for it, whether you use it or not, as it's always been.
Server: Asura
Game: FFXI
Posts: 34187
By Asura.Kingnobody 2014-07-23 15:42:49
I'm not white-knighting anyone. If you assign a value to things that should be free, you're responsible for the cost of that statement. Basic housing and healthcare are never free, even when they're free. Even in "capitalist" countries that provide housing and healthcare, the cost is borne by the public. You still have no grasp of the way these systems work, and thus, can't pretend you understand what the meaning of "free" actually is. It's a wonder our perfect education system failed you so badly. Are you really that dense?
Jet stated that he doesn't want to pay for his house, food, or medical bills. Does not want to pay means he wants it for free. As in free for him.
I have already stated, which you have quoted but refused to read, that somebody else will have to pick up his slack.
You made yet another stupid remark and are trying to talk your way out of it. Good job at proving your stupidity yet again.
Server: Asura
Game: FFXI
Posts: 34187
By Asura.Kingnobody 2014-07-23 15:43:43
Uh... I've paid for my own insurance for quite some time now. I rarely use it for anything other than routine checkups so I imagine I've paid for other people's costs quite often yet this concept is somehow unacceptable when it comes to socialized medicine. Yet, you fail to realize what insurance is.
Well, to be honest, we shouldn't be surprised that you don't know.
Insurance is a system built on a risk pool, that means, by definition, you will always either be paying for someone else or not paying for yourself. Do, please, continue to try and make points you don't understand. At least you understand most of it.
But you forgot to mention that insurance itself is a risk. The premiums paid but not used for the year is the cost associated with risk of not being sick for the year.
Well, that was the old system. The new system is more in line with your definition where everyone pays into a pool and the risk is on the insurance itself, not on the person, since they have no choice but to buy into a product. But we are all perfectly ok with that, aren't we? Being forced by law to purchase a product we may or may not use.
The system is the same, and you're already paying for it, whether you use it or not, as it's always been. You do know the difference between the old system and the new system, right?
Like in who supplies the risk in either case.
Cerberus.Pleebo
Server: Cerberus
Game: FFXI
Posts: 9720
By Cerberus.Pleebo 2014-07-23 15:44:11
At least you understand most of it.
But you forgot to mention that insurance itself is a risk. The premiums paid but not used for the year is the cost associated with risk of not being sick for the year.
Well, that was the old system. The new system is more in line with your definition where everyone pays into a pool and the risk is on the insurance itself, not on the person, since they have no choice but to buy into a product. But we are all perfectly ok with that, aren't we? Being forced by law to purchase a product we may or may not use. So, uh, how does any of this contradict what I said?
[+]
VIP
Server: Odin
Game: FFXI
Posts: 9534
By Odin.Jassik 2014-07-23 15:46:53
I'm not white-knighting anyone. If you assign a value to things that should be free, you're responsible for the cost of that statement. Basic housing and healthcare are never free, even when they're free. Even in "capitalist" countries that provide housing and healthcare, the cost is borne by the public. You still have no grasp of the way these systems work, and thus, can't pretend you understand what the meaning of "free" actually is. It's a wonder our perfect education system failed you so badly. Are you really that dense?
Jet stated that he doesn't want to pay for his house, food, or medical bills. Does not want to pay means he wants it for free. As in free for him.
I have already stated, which you have quoted but refused to read, that somebody else will have to pick up his slack.
You made yet another stupid remark and are trying to talk your way out of it. Good job at proving your stupidity yet again.
He wants a system where those are standard. It's an admirable goal, and one that many countries have tackled successfully. Those costs are offset through things like community works. In places like The Netherlands, recipients are required to provide community services that would otherwise cost money. That's how "free basic housing and healthcare" actually work. The fact that you latch onto a singular word and attempt to build a strawman then insult the intelligence of anyone who points out your folly is pathetic and bringing someone's children into an argument is a cheap shot beyond measure and the mark of a truly weak person.
Bahamut.Ravael
Server: Bahamut
Game: FFXI
Posts: 13622
By Bahamut.Ravael 2014-07-23 16:36:31
So, community works support the "free" housing and healthcare to offset the costs? And people who can't, don't, or refuse to work get supported anyway? Is that really so much different from what we do here just through taxes on workers to support welfare?
[+]
VIP
Server: Odin
Game: FFXI
Posts: 9534
By Odin.Jassik 2014-07-23 16:56:55
So, community works support the "free" housing and healthcare to offset the costs? And people who can't, don't, or refuse to work get supported anyway? Is that really so much different from what we do here just through taxes on workers to support welfare?
Only in the words you use to describe the systems, aside from a lot of the particulars.
By fonewear 2014-07-23 17:37:16
Eight pages are great but nine is divine.
Michelle Obama lips make my fingertips twitch.
Rhyming is dumb so are nuns.
[+]
Ragnarok.Nausi
Server: Ragnarok
Game: FFXI
Posts: 6709
By Ragnarok.Nausi 2014-07-24 08:02:32
Wah! I don't want to be responsible for my own costs....
Can't say I've ever met a person who actually says stuff like that. It's one of the most common strawman arguments, and the people who use it are more often than not sucking the teat just as hard as their fictitious freeloader counterparts.
No one says stuff like that. That's the whole point! If they did they would be laughed at. So they twist words to make themselves feel better by saying something that isn't true. If you want to make other people pay for something, you by default don't want to pay for it yourself.
Wah! I don't want to be responsible for my own costs.... Uh... I've paid for my own insurance for quite some time now. I rarely use it for anything other than routine checkups so I imagine I've paid for other people's costs quite often yet this concept is somehow unacceptable when it comes to socialized medicine.
Your post just proved it. You just scribbled a bunch of garbage, attributed it to another poster, and then announced yourself the winner. Good job. In socialized medicine it's no longer a voluntary system that you engage in. I cannot believe every commie here keeps glossing over this fact and nullifying the idea that the removal of choice by government is a BAD thing.
I'd applaud you for paying your own way before but I don't believe in rewarding people for common sense.
Server: Asura
Game: FFXI
Posts: 34187
By Asura.Kingnobody 2014-07-24 08:26:39
Ignore them Nausi.
No matter how much common sense you show them, they will always say you are wrong.
Like good little parrots they are.
By Vudoku 2014-07-24 08:36:25
Ignore them Nausi.
No matter how much common sense you show them, they will always say you are wrong.
Like good little parrots they are.
Why are you the only one capable of common sense and critical thinking? Isnt that counter intuitive? I mean it isnt possible that you're right about everything?
Or are all your thoughts original?
KINGNOBODY for RULER OF THE WORLD, please.
Server: Asura
Game: FFXI
Posts: 34187
By Asura.Kingnobody 2014-07-24 08:41:20
Ignore them Nausi.
No matter how much common sense you show them, they will always say you are wrong.
Like good little parrots they are.
Why are you the only one capable of common sense and critical thinking? Isnt that counter intuitive? I mean it isnt possible that you're right about everything?
Or are all your thoughts original?
KINGNOBODY for RULER OF THE WORLD, please. When you have people who say that insurance isn't about risk and it is much better to pay $50k+ for surgery than $6,750, and then question my view of reality, that is when you start to treat them as mindless animals who are basically mouthpieces of their handlers.
AKA Parrots.
By Vudoku 2014-07-24 08:44:32
Who are Ignore them Nausi.
No matter how much common sense you show them, they will always say you are wrong.
Like good little parrots they are.
Why are you the only one capable of common sense and critical thinking? Isnt that counter intuitive? I mean it isnt possible that you're right about everything?
Or are all your thoughts original?
KINGNOBODY for RULER OF THE WORLD, please. When you have people who say that insurance isn't about risk and it is much better to pay $50k+ for surgery than $6,750, and then question my view of reality, that is when you start to treat them as mindless animals who are basically mouthpieces of their handlers.
AKA Parrots.
Who are there handlers? I mean seriously do you have handlers?
Lakshmi.Flavin
Server: Lakshmi
Game: FFXI
Posts: 18466
By Lakshmi.Flavin 2014-07-24 08:57:10
Pretty much everything you do in life holds a certain amount of risk.
Everyone already pays for everyone elses health insurance anyways... it's like that healthy 25 y/o guy who doesn't want to pay to save money because he's healthy... then gets hit by a car or has a kidney stone or whatever... if he has no real assets there's nothing that they can collect from and then the people who already have insurance end up paying for that person mostly through increased premiums or taxes.
everyone needs healthcare... everyone. You might not need it this second but its not something that you can wait until something goes very wrong then say oh... well can I get insurance now so I don't have to pay as much? Or Well I can't afford this because I opted out of getting insurance so can you guys pick this one up for me?
EVERYONE should have an insurance plan already or looking into getting one. We shouldn't have to come to a point where we force people to do it and it should be affordable to all.
By Vudoku 2014-07-24 08:57:51
Vudoku said: ยป
So, my point is how can you be so critical of "liberals" when I can state with absolute certainty, that you are no "conservative". Remember, I have read many, many of your posts, and yes I have advanced past 4th grade, so dont pretend that the consistent theme of all your posts are mostly vague generalizations (or as some "conservatives" like to say, facts).
I'm critical about everyone, just liberals most of all because they post a greater danger to our society than any other group can. We are regressing back to pre-Industrial age with their policies.
But I'm sorry that you haven't learned anything beyond the 12th grade. I know that a lot of my posts require a little bit of critical thinking and also a lot of secondary information you wouldn't get in a public education background, but I don't fault you for that. See, this is what I am talking about. You say liberals are the greatest threat to our society. I dont get how you can say that or know that. WE HAVE NEVER had a liberal congress or president (please dont patronize me with obama and clinton, PLEASE), nor is there even a remote chance this will happen.
Liberals are not the enemy, they have different points of view than you. If you are not capable of seeing balance of thought or have the ability to compromise what does that make you?
MANY MANY "liberals" believe in a fiscally responsible/social liberal society.
BUT, to simply dismiss people as without common sense or critical thinking skills because you disagree.. that is the very definition of ignorant.
I for one think you are very capable of both, I just dont think you display either very often.
VIP
Server: Odin
Game: FFXI
Posts: 9534
By Odin.Jassik 2014-07-24 09:05:42
No one says stuff like that. That's the whole point! If they did they would be laughed at. So they twist words to make themselves feel better by saying something that isn't true. If you want to make other people pay for something, you by default don't want to pay for it yourself.
No, you're taking it out of context and putting it through your fake outrage filter. Just because you aren't paying for something privately doesn't mean you aren't paying for it. Basic things that are provided to EVERYONE that they don't have to pay for include streets, public parks, law enforcement, public transportation, etc. Do you think that because you don't have to stop and give the road workers a 20 everyday that you're not paying for it? How can anyone call that line of thought "common sense"?!
Quote: A Court Ruling Just Blew A Huge Hole In Obamacare
Obamacare was just dealt a major loss in court.
The U.S. Court of Appeals for the D.C. Circuit ruled Tuesday that more than half the country shouldn't be receiving tax subsidies under Obamacare -- a ruling that could cripple the health care law if it's ultimately upheld.
The 2-1 decision in Halbig v. Sebelius is the first victory, in any court, for a legal challenge that says the tax subsidies should only be available in states that set up their own insurance exchanges.
The health care law specifically authorizes subsidies in "an exchange established by the State," and the plaintiffs in Halbig said the administration violated the law by also extending subsidies to the in the 36 states using the federal system. They said Congress meant for the tax credits to serve as an incentive for states to establish their own exchanges.
Defenders of the health law said that reading of the health care law is too narrow, and that Congress clearly intended for the financial assistance to be provided equally on all exchanges.
Two federal courts have dismissed similar challenges, making Tuesday's victory especially important for the challengers.
The D.C. Circuit ruling guarantees that the issue will move forward -- something that should seriously scare the administration. An ultimate win would deal a devastating blow to the health care law.
A recent report from Urban Institute researchers estimated that a ruling against the Obama administration could cause an estimated 7.3 million people -- about 62 percent of the 11.8 million people expected to enroll in federally facilitated marketplaces by 2016 -- to lose out on $36.1 billion in insurance subsidies.
Consumers in Texas and Florida could be hardest hit, according to the report, with $5.6 billion and $4.8 billion respectively at risk.
The federal government can now appeal the three-judge panel's ruling to the full D.C. Circuit, where Obamacare allies believe they're more likely to win.
Source
|
|
