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Obamacare was just dealt a major loss in court.
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By Odin.Jassik 2014-07-24 13:38:50
You cited costs being "astronomical", others have too so I guess by your last post they aren't?
The costs could be justified if the care was good. The problem isn't strictly the price but the availability and quality of care. You can deal with it from the perspective of "I don't want to pay for it" or you can deal with it from the perspective of "I want to get my money's worth".
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By Asura.Kingnobody 2014-07-24 13:39:20
You cited costs being "astronomical", others have too so I guess by your last post they aren't? Don't forget, to some people, $1 is astronomical cost and isn't affordable.
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By Creaucent Alazrin 2014-07-24 13:45:17
life saving translpants or cancer treatments have been denied. Where is your support in this? Or are you broadly assuming?
Tell you what. Give us a creditable source in your statement, and I will publicly state that I was wrong and you were right.
This ranges from things as simple as dental care to annual checkups. Under ACA, annual checkups are free (with insurance). Would you like for me to quote you the code section on that?
And since you can get subsidized (in a few states currently, lets see how the SC reacts to this appeals ruling) for the entire cost, then who is left without insurance? Even the poor could have gotten Medicare for free prior to ACA, but everyone forgets that little tidbit and demands that those who refuse to work get the very best insurance available....
No... I'm not looking for cosmetic surgery but you bringing that up is just a show of you making this into something it's not again and ignoring any kind of valid issue. Explain how getting a nose-job is considered health care then.
It was my job at one point. What methods did you use? If it really was your job, you should be able to tell us in a heartbeat how you did it. Why are you hesitating?
lol... I love how you can consider everyone's argument but your own flawed or irrational. You've shown no great understanding of the law and have only, as you say it, parroted what your conservative masters have told you to lol. Ah, the attempt to use my own words against me. Problem is, you have yet to show that I did not provide understanding of the law and I did not provide evidence in that understand and interpretation. Good luck on that endeavor though. You will need it.
Protip: If you want to prove that my interpretation of the law is incorrect, why don't you give us your interpenetration of the law back by code sections of the law, like I did.
A nose job isnt a very good ecample and people can have serious issues with their nose, which is an important part of your body, and can have the issues fixed with a nose job. Infact these days theres a lot of plastic surgery for other bodily issues. A man was born with half a face and had severe plastic surgery to give him a new face. Women can develope extremely different sized breasts and need breast augmentation to make them both the same size. There was a woman born without ears and had limited hearing she now has two perfectly shaped ears. There was a woman who would sweat profusely grom her hands from some genetic disorder and the only "cure" was to have botox injections into her hands to stop the sweat glands. She could touch a lot of things as it would leave them soaked. Most of these have been on embarasing bodies here in the UK and for all those people its been life changing. Those were ju
 Ragnarok.Nausi
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By Ragnarok.Nausi 2014-07-24 13:51:16
You cited costs being "astronomical", others have too so I guess by your last post they aren't?
The costs could be justified if the care was good. The problem isn't strictly the price but the availability and quality of care. You can deal with it from the perspective of "I don't want to pay for it" or you can deal with it from the perspective of "I want to get my money's worth".
...and if I don't feel like I did I want someone else to make me feel like it.
You DID say that it btw.
I asked the question why should the governement manage people's healthcare and you said 'because it's expensive and....'
Lakshmi.Flavin
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By Lakshmi.Flavin 2014-07-24 14:31:45
Your "factcheck" article comes from a source that even mentions it advocates socialized medicine. How is that creditable again?
Your other 3 articles are antiquated because these were under pre-ACA rules. I'm guessing you did you search about articles that denied healthcare because they didn't have insurance. How about doing a search about articles showing those who are denied healthcare for no other reason besides the hospitals just don't want to treat them. Because your own words state that hospitals are turning away people and not providing them healthcare.
inb4 "semantics" excuse. PNHP had nothing to do with the study which it also says it neither funded nor had anything to do with setting the study up. All it says is that 2 of the 6 medical professionals that worked on this have ties to the organization. All they did was publicize it which the american journal of public health also did. How is it not?
Are you trying to turn this into an argument about something its not again? This talk with Nausi that you moved in on was about conditions pre-ACA not post. You guys are the ones talking about how you don't want the ACA or to be forced to pay for someone elses treatment even though you already do in many cases.
When did I say they have turned people away for shits and giggles? All I said is that they turned them away. The most likely reason is that they can't pay for it almost always because they have no insurance.
 Bahamut.Milamber
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By Bahamut.Milamber 2014-07-24 14:32:36
Their health is not my responsibility, nor it is yours, it's theirs. And this is where it breaks down. This statement can be made for roads, electricity, defense, water, sewage, trash, R&D, you name it.
By the way, if your health is your responsibility, and other's health is their responsibility, then why the hell do you want immigrants with any kind of disease treated before being allowed into the US?
Hell, it isn't your responsibility, why should you care?
You're analogy is flawed, one can opt out of public services for most of those things. We can make our own electricity, pump our own water, deal with our own sewer, etc.
To the extent that it's right, it is so for things that the individual is not capable of accomplishing itself. For example, and individual cannot defend his country single handedly, so therefore it is reasonable that his government does it for him. Is it really so unreasonable to expect that people manage their own healthcare? Simply? Yes. Since a significant part of health problems can arise without input from the individual, and cannot be funded by the individual (the entire principle of health insurance).
Quote: It works the other way too, why not give everyone a cell phone, GMO free food, and penthouse housing too? Hell quality of life is all improved with such things isn't it, and people deserve the best, regardless if they can in fact pay for it. Amirite? It isn't about getting the best. It is about deciding that basic necessities should be covered, and that healthcare is a basic necessity.
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Bahamut.Milamber
Server: Bahamut
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By Bahamut.Milamber 2014-07-24 14:40:34
You cited costs being "astronomical", others have too so I guess by your last post they aren't? Don't forget, to some people, $1 is astronomical cost and isn't affordable. Sure, if you earn $0.0001 a day, have $0.00005 in expenses, can't get a loan, and have no friends/family/community that are in any better shape.
It's all relative. And yes, it's an absurd argument, refuting an absurd statement.
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By Odin.Jassik 2014-07-24 15:37:38
You cited costs being "astronomical", others have too so I guess by your last post they aren't?
The costs could be justified if the care was good. The problem isn't strictly the price but the availability and quality of care. You can deal with it from the perspective of "I don't want to pay for it" or you can deal with it from the perspective of "I want to get my money's worth".
...and if I don't feel like I did I want someone else to make me feel like it.
You DID say that it btw.
I asked the question why should the governement manage people's healthcare and you said 'because it's expensive and....'
No, I dismissed your idea that you can make your own power as a parallel to healthcare. I said most people aren't able to manage their healthcare because they don't understand it. Also, the government doesn't manage healthcare, they simply require minimum standards of care and that everyone be insured. That benefits providers who would otherwise lose income. You don't want the poor defenseless private healthcare industry and pharma to lose profits do you?
Ragnarok.Nausi
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By Ragnarok.Nausi 2014-07-25 07:54:51
You cited costs being "astronomical", others have too so I guess by your last post they aren't?
The costs could be justified if the care was good. The problem isn't strictly the price but the availability and quality of care. You can deal with it from the perspective of "I don't want to pay for it" or you can deal with it from the perspective of "I want to get my money's worth".
...and if I don't feel like I did I want someone else to make me feel like it.
You DID say that it btw.
I asked the question why should the governement manage people's healthcare and you said 'because it's expensive and....'
No, I dismissed your idea that you can make your own power as a parallel to healthcare. I said most people aren't able to manage their healthcare because they don't understand it. Also, the government doesn't manage healthcare, they simply require minimum standards of care and that everyone be insured. That benefits providers who would otherwise lose income. You don't want the poor defenseless private healthcare industry and pharma to lose profits do you?
You may not have meant it, but you said it.
Also we are not dealing with minimum standards of care. Minimum standards of care don't cost people 1000+ a month.
Their health is not my responsibility, nor it is yours, it's theirs. And this is where it breaks down. This statement can be made for roads, electricity, defense, water, sewage, trash, R&D, you name it.
By the way, if your health is your responsibility, and other's health is their responsibility, then why the hell do you want immigrants with any kind of disease treated before being allowed into the US?
Hell, it isn't your responsibility, why should you care?
You're analogy is flawed, one can opt out of public services for most of those things. We can make our own electricity, pump our own water, deal with our own sewer, etc.
To the extent that it's right, it is so for things that the individual is not capable of accomplishing itself. For example, and individual cannot defend his country single handedly, so therefore it is reasonable that his government does it for him. Is it really so unreasonable to expect that people manage their own healthcare? Simply? Yes. Since a significant part of health problems can arise without input from the individual, and cannot be funded by the individual (the entire principle of health insurance).
Quote: It works the other way too, why not give everyone a cell phone, GMO free food, and penthouse housing too? Hell quality of life is all improved with such things isn't it, and people deserve the best, regardless if they can in fact pay for it. Amirite? It isn't about getting the best. It is about deciding that basic necessities should be covered, and that healthcare is a basic necessity.
Keep telling yourself that the people finding insurance plans costing themselves over 1000 a month with thousands in out of pocket expenses are obtaining " BASIC" care and or the necessities. It's not about basics its about wealth redistribution.
Ragnarok.Nausi
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By Ragnarok.Nausi 2014-07-25 08:06:59
Back on topic:
YouTube Video Placeholder
An ACA architect explaining exactly why states who do not set up exchanges should not get subsidies.
Let the lawlessness continue!
Server: Asura
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By Asura.Kingnobody 2014-07-25 08:20:06
Back on topic:
YouTube Video Placeholder
An ACA architect explaining exactly why states who do not set up exchanges should not get subsidies.
Let the lawlessness continue! Fixed video.
 Leviathan.Chaosx
Server: Leviathan
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By Leviathan.Chaosx 2014-07-30 18:22:27
Time for the five-week summer recess fun to begin!
Quote: The Republican-led U.S. House of Representatives on Wednesday cleared the way for the launch of a lawsuit accusing President Barack Obama of overstepping his authority in carrying out his signature healthcare law.
The 225-201 vote, along party lines, to authorize the suit will allow House lawyers to draft legal documents over a five-week summer recess starting on Friday.
The planned lawsuit is expected to generate months of bitter campaign rhetoric from both Republicans and Democrats ahead of November elections that will determine the political control of Congress next year.
The suit is expected to claim that Obama, a Democrat, exceeded his executive authority in making unilateral changes to the Affordable Care Act, known as Obamacare.
Republicans argue that by delaying some healthcare coverage mandates and granting various waivers, he bypassed Congress in violation of the U.S. Constitution.
Republicans have complained about other unilateral actions that Obama has taken to advance his agenda, from executive orders on immigration policy to same-sex partner benefits.
But they have narrowly focused the suit on the healthcare law because "it is the option most likely to clear the legal hurdles necessary to succeed," said Republican Representative Pete Sessions of Texas, who chairs the House Rules Committee.
"This administration has effectively rewritten the law without following the constitutional process," Sessions added.
Democrats have slammed the lawsuit effort as a politically motivated waste of taxpayer resources while Congress has failed to act on other pressing issues including emergency funding to deal with a flood of migrant children.
"This is a veiled attempt at impeaching the president," said Democratic Representative Sheila Jackson-Lee of Texas.
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By Shiva.Viciousss 2014-07-30 18:33:59
It's going to take longer to file the suit than it is to dismiss it.
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 Bismarck.Snprphnx
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By Bismarck.Snprphnx 2014-07-30 19:25:07
I typically vote Republican, and personally think Obama has done more harm than good. However, I find this whole thing to be a fking circus. Republicans try to strong arm and get stuff removed from ACA. When that fails, they file lawsuit to block it, when that fails, they mock the initial roll out of the website/enrollment phase (which was a mess). Now they are trying to file a suit against some of the changes made, saying Obama bypasses Congressional approval. Some of these changes are what Republicans failed to get pushed back to begin with. And now that they are seeing that the ACA is potentially having success, they want to ***-block the changes that are helping.
WTF
Leviathan.Chaosx
Server: Leviathan
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By Leviathan.Chaosx 2014-07-30 19:26:53
Bismarck.Snprphnx said: »I typically vote Republican, and personally think Obama has done more harm than good. However, I find this whole thing to be a fking circus. Republicans try to strong arm and get stuff removed from ACA. When that fails, they file lawsuit to block it, when that fails, they mock the initial roll out of the website/enrollment phase (which was a mess). Now they are trying to file a suit against some of the changes made, saying Obama bypasses Congressional approval. Some of these changes are what Republicans failed to get pushed back to begin with. And now that they are seeing that the ACA is potentially having success, they want to ***-block the changes that are helping.
WTF What success is the ACA actually having?
By Altimaomega 2014-07-30 20:35:09
Bismarck.Snprphnx said: »I typically vote Republican, and personally think Obama has done more harm than good. However, I find this whole thing to be a fking circus. Republicans try to strong arm and get stuff removed from ACA. When that fails, they file lawsuit to block it, when that fails, they mock the initial roll out of the website/enrollment phase (which was a mess). Now they are trying to file a suit against some of the changes made, saying Obama bypasses Congressional approval. Some of these changes are what Republicans failed to get pushed back to begin with. And now that they are seeing that the ACA is potentially having success, they want to ***-block the changes that are helping.
WTF What success is the ACA actually having?
Its got the democrat party fighting among themselves and the republican party now has something that the vast majority of voters wish was never passed to use against them.
Thanks Obama!
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By Ciri Zireael 2014-07-30 20:54:56
Korpg keeping the nonsense alive past 9 pages I see.
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By vaness 2014-07-30 22:27:57
Came to the conclusion a while ago that thinking about other humans well being is something rare.
I don't want to help people because I did this or that and they can do the same.
Not everyone have the brain, money or life situation to get a PHD and sometimes a little help comes a long way. Helping the poors, helps the economy. It's a big giant circle and part of that circle is having customers. No money > no customers > bankruptcy > job lost > Economy crash.
My 2 cents.
Inb4 lolCanada. Hey we're pretty cool people, stop hating! Besides, every country have their own issues and none is better than another.
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By Jetackuu 2014-07-30 22:30:21
Bismarck.Snprphnx said: »I typically vote Republican, and personally think Obama has done more harm than good. However, I find this whole thing to be a fking circus. Republicans try to strong arm and get stuff removed from ACA. When that fails, they file lawsuit to block it, when that fails, they mock the initial roll out of the website/enrollment phase (which was a mess). Now they are trying to file a suit against some of the changes made, saying Obama bypasses Congressional approval. Some of these changes are what Republicans failed to get pushed back to begin with. And now that they are seeing that the ACA is potentially having success, they want to ***-block the changes that are helping.
WTF What success is the ACA actually having? Raised the age college students can sty on their parents' insurance.
Can't be denied for pe-existing conditions.
I've read a lot of bad things though as well.
By Jetackuu 2014-07-30 22:31:18
Came to the conclusion a while ago that thinking about other humans well being is something rare.
I don't want to help people because I did this or that and they can do the same.
Not everyone have the brain, money or life situation to get a PHD and sometimes a little help comes a long way. Helping the poors, helps the economy. It's a big giant circle and part of that circle is having customers. No money > no customers > bankruptcy > job lost > Economy crash.
My 2 cents.
Inb4 lolCanada. Hey we're pretty cool people, stop hating! Besides, every country have their own issues and none is better than another. Tell us what it is all about?
Bahamut.Ravael
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By Bahamut.Ravael 2014-07-30 22:35:02
Bismarck.Snprphnx said: »I typically vote Republican, and personally think Obama has done more harm than good. However, I find this whole thing to be a fking circus. Republicans try to strong arm and get stuff removed from ACA. When that fails, they file lawsuit to block it, when that fails, they mock the initial roll out of the website/enrollment phase (which was a mess). Now they are trying to file a suit against some of the changes made, saying Obama bypasses Congressional approval. Some of these changes are what Republicans failed to get pushed back to begin with. And now that they are seeing that the ACA is potentially having success, they want to ***-block the changes that are helping.
WTF What success is the ACA actually having?
Can't be denied for pe-existing conditions.
I've read a lot of bad things though as well.
I think those are about the only things most people agree on as being good. They also happen to be, if I remember correctly, things that were put into place well before the roll-out.
Edit: Heck, if Obama had just stopped with those two things, he might actually have a decent approval rating.
By Jetackuu 2014-07-30 22:36:10
Yes, but they were still in the law, it was rolled out in stages.
Bahamut.Ravael
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By Bahamut.Ravael 2014-07-30 22:39:13
Yes, but they were still in the law, it was rolled out in stages.
So they were the proverbial candy being handed out by the the creepy guy in the unmarked van?
By Jetackuu 2014-07-30 22:43:25
Yes, but they were still in the law, it was rolled out in stages.
So they were the proverbial candy being handed out by the the creepy guy in the unmarked van? But he actually had and gave out the candy, wether or not we're tied down and getting *** raped has yet to be fully seen.
By Altimaomega 2014-07-30 23:13:11
Yes, but they were still in the law, it was rolled out in stages.
So they were the proverbial candy being handed out by the the creepy guy in the unmarked van?
And how many people fell for it and voted him back into office for the second time... /sigh
By Jetackuu 2014-07-30 23:14:42
I'd have voted for just about anyone over Romney. Probably even that crackpot Ron Paul.
By Altimaomega 2014-07-30 23:17:54
Yes, but they were still in the law, it was rolled out in stages.
So they were the proverbial candy being handed out by the the creepy guy in the unmarked van?
And how many people fell for it and voted him back into office for the second time... /sigh
Edit: raising the age children stay on mommy and daddys ins. is a massive gimmick. The parents just end up paying for ins. longer which makes the company more money than if the HEALTHY kids just never got any to start with.
By Altimaomega 2014-07-30 23:24:37
I'd have voted for just about anyone over Romney. Probably even that crackpot Ron Paul.
I'll agree with you on that, the republicans really, really, really need to stop picking horrible candidates.
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By Odin.Jassik 2014-07-31 00:44:41
I'd have voted for just about anyone over Romney. Probably even that crackpot Ron Paul.
I'll agree with you on that, the republicans really, really, really need to stop picking horrible candidates.
They need to start cultivating some from this century.
 Bismarck.Bloodrose
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By Bismarck.Bloodrose 2014-07-31 00:49:19
I'd have voted for just about anyone over Romney. Probably even that crackpot Ron Paul.
I'll agree with you on that, the republicans really, really, really need to stop picking horrible candidates.
They need to start cultivating some from this century. And ones that aren't batshit crazy insane, and don't make the general republican voters look equally batshit crazy insane.
Quote: A Court Ruling Just Blew A Huge Hole In Obamacare
Obamacare was just dealt a major loss in court.
The U.S. Court of Appeals for the D.C. Circuit ruled Tuesday that more than half the country shouldn't be receiving tax subsidies under Obamacare -- a ruling that could cripple the health care law if it's ultimately upheld.
The 2-1 decision in Halbig v. Sebelius is the first victory, in any court, for a legal challenge that says the tax subsidies should only be available in states that set up their own insurance exchanges.
The health care law specifically authorizes subsidies in "an exchange established by the State," and the plaintiffs in Halbig said the administration violated the law by also extending subsidies to the in the 36 states using the federal system. They said Congress meant for the tax credits to serve as an incentive for states to establish their own exchanges.
Defenders of the health law said that reading of the health care law is too narrow, and that Congress clearly intended for the financial assistance to be provided equally on all exchanges.
Two federal courts have dismissed similar challenges, making Tuesday's victory especially important for the challengers.
The D.C. Circuit ruling guarantees that the issue will move forward -- something that should seriously scare the administration. An ultimate win would deal a devastating blow to the health care law.
A recent report from Urban Institute researchers estimated that a ruling against the Obama administration could cause an estimated 7.3 million people -- about 62 percent of the 11.8 million people expected to enroll in federally facilitated marketplaces by 2016 -- to lose out on $36.1 billion in insurance subsidies.
Consumers in Texas and Florida could be hardest hit, according to the report, with $5.6 billion and $4.8 billion respectively at risk.
The federal government can now appeal the three-judge panel's ruling to the full D.C. Circuit, where Obamacare allies believe they're more likely to win.
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