Random Politics & Religion #00

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Random Politics & Religion #00
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 Cerberus.Laconic
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By Cerberus.Laconic 2015-07-04 11:30:20
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And you talk as if its impossible for a 13 year old to not have sex.
Talk about not being able to grasp concepts..
 Valefor.Sehachan
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By Valefor.Sehachan 2015-07-04 11:31:00
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Cerberus.Laconic said: »
And you talk as if its impossible for a 13 year old to not have sex.
That's a lie.
But some might and will, even if you daddy don't want it.
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 Bahamut.Ravael
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By Bahamut.Ravael 2015-07-04 11:31:27
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Valefor.Sehachan said: »
It's not hyperbole, he talked about abstinence previously.

Yes, because talk of abstinence automatically means that he approves of no other sex education for kids. Don't make me pull out jumptoconclusions.jpg.
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 Cerberus.Laconic
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By Cerberus.Laconic 2015-07-04 11:31:46
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Valefor.Sehachan said: »
Cerberus.Laconic said: »
And you talk as if its impossible for a 13 year old to not have sex.
That's a lie.
But some might and will, even if you daddy don't want it.

That's called bad parenting. The true source of all these problems.

And no, again.. Its not a lie.
Valefor.Sehachan said: »
Cause they are gonna do it, whether you want them or not.
Yes, even as soon as 13.

Do we need to discuss the meaning of words again?
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 Valefor.Sehachan
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By Valefor.Sehachan 2015-07-04 11:33:01
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Bahamut.Ravael said: »
Valefor.Sehachan said: »
It's not hyperbole, he talked about abstinence previously.

Yes, because talk of abstinence automatically means that he approves of no other sex education for kids. Don't make me pull out jumptoconclusions.jpg.
Um, he also complained about sex ed, so yeah.

Cerberus.Laconic said: »
That's called bad parenting. The true source of all these problems.
Unless you place a chastity belt on your son/daughter, you can't control it. Teaching is all you can do, after that they're individuals who are going to make choices like everyone else.
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 Valefor.Sehachan
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By Valefor.Sehachan 2015-07-04 11:35:18
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Cerberus.Laconic said: »
Do we need to discuss the meaning of words again?
Emphasis on the word even, which means even 13 yo might have sex. Idk why you're now assuming that I mean that every middle schooler ever has sex. Are you just trying to find new arguments?
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 Cerberus.Laconic
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By Cerberus.Laconic 2015-07-04 11:36:58
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Valefor.Sehachan said: »
Um, he also complained about sex ed, so yeah.

Now that is a lie.

Valefor.Sehachan said: »
Unless you place a chastity belt on your son/daughter, you can't control it. Teaching is all you can do, after that they're individuals who are going to make choices like everyone else.

Odd, Not I or anyone I know ever wore a chastity belt and we all made it out of middle school without children.

You know what works better than a chastity belt? Fear of disappointing your respectful parents.
 Cerberus.Laconic
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By Cerberus.Laconic 2015-07-04 11:37:52
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Valefor.Sehachan said: »
Cerberus.Laconic said: »
Do we need to discuss the meaning of words again?
Emphasis on the word even, which means even 13 yo might have sex. Idk why you're now assuming that I mean that every middle schooler ever has sex. Are you just trying to find new arguments?

So you are capable of higher thought. Good job. Now can you tell us why all the 13 years old that are not having sex are abstaining?
 Valefor.Sehachan
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By Valefor.Sehachan 2015-07-04 11:43:45
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Cerberus.Laconic said: »
Now can you tell us why all the 13 years old that are not having sex are abstaining?
1. They don't feel ready
2. They're not interested yet
3. They would but aren't capable of getting laid
4. They're strongly religious
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 Cerberus.Pleebo
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By Cerberus.Pleebo 2015-07-04 11:46:19
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Bahamut.Ravael said: »
Valefor.Sehachan said: »
It's not hyperbole, he talked about abstinence previously.

Yes, because talk of abstinence automatically means that he approves of no other sex education for kids. Don't make me pull out jumptoconclusions.jpg.
Whats the point of education if you're not allowed to put it to use? "This is birth control. But you can't use this because getting pregnant is a sufficient punishment for being a ***."
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 Cerberus.Laconic
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By Cerberus.Laconic 2015-07-04 11:47:26
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Cerberus.Pleebo said: »
Bahamut.Ravael said: »
Valefor.Sehachan said: »
It's not hyperbole, he talked about abstinence previously.

Yes, because talk of abstinence automatically means that he approves of no other sex education for kids. Don't make me pull out jumptoconclusions.jpg.
Whats the point of education if you're not allowed to put it to use? "This is birth control. But you can't use this because getting pregnant is a sufficient punishment for being a ***."

/facepalm.
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 Cerberus.Pleebo
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By Cerberus.Pleebo 2015-07-04 11:48:55
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Cerberus.Laconic said: »
When you've got nothing. ^
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 Bahamut.Ravael
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By Bahamut.Ravael 2015-07-04 11:50:48
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I think we're actually closer to a consensus if we actually focus on what the other side is saying as opposed to what we think they're saying.

Where I have a problem is people saying that teenagers should wait until they're "ready". Since the thing that started this discussion was in relation to 12-year-olds, I think it's safe to say that there is no way that a 12-year-old has the mental capacity to fully grasp the potential physical and psychological consequences that come with it. Sure they should be taught all about it anyway, but I highly doubt that a vast majority of kids that age know what being "ready" even means. At least with encouraged abstinence the kids aren't led into a false sense of security beforehand by thinking the whole thing's no big deal because they were able to justify it with their mix of powerful new hormones and faulty logic.
By Aelius 2015-07-04 11:54:29
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Attention_Grab.jpg

This is the final warning that if anyone belittles/insults anyone else or posts utter nonsense (spam) within this thread any further, you will get a warning and a topicban from this thread.
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 Odin.Jassik
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By Odin.Jassik 2015-07-04 12:01:40
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Bahamut.Ravael said: »
I think it's safe to say that there is no way that a 12-year-old has the mental capacity to fully grasp the potential physical and psychological consequences that come with it.

Those areas of the brain don't fully develop until the mid-20's. A legal adult isn't prepared to fully grasp the potential consequences of their behavior. Knowledge is the best way to prepare kids to minimize those risks. The alternative to making knowledge and protection available is to isolate them from their peers. Again, I don't agree with 12 year olds getting IUD's, but you guys act as if that is the only contraception or that hormonal birth control is only taken so kids can have casual sex without getting pregnant. Hence the hyperbole and jibes.

Take abstinence and helicoptering off the table as your primary solution and you won't be so ripe for mockery.
 Bahamut.Ravael
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By Bahamut.Ravael 2015-07-04 12:11:40
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Odin.Jassik said: »
Those areas of the brain don't fully develop until the mid-20's. A legal adult isn't prepared to fully grasp the potential consequences of their behavior.

True, but they're far better off than a 12-year-old and are much better equipped to deal with any consequences.
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 Cerberus.Laconic
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By Cerberus.Laconic 2015-07-04 12:16:13
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Odin.Jassik said: »
Take abstinence and helicoptering off the table as your primary solution and you won't be so ripe for mockery.

Abstinence for 12-13-14 year olds should not be ripe for mockery, Neither should being a good parent.
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 Valefor.Sehachan
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By Valefor.Sehachan 2015-07-04 12:18:27
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You can encourage them to wait, that's fine. But you have to take into account they might not listen. Because they're curious, impulsive, and at times - depending on the relationship with their parents or simply their own personality - purposedely contrarian.
You have to be realist, accept the scenario and make sure they use precaution whenever they do it, be it 13 or 35.
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 Bahamut.Ravael
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By Bahamut.Ravael 2015-07-04 12:21:05
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Valefor.Sehachan said: »
You can encourage them to wait, that's fine. But you have to take into account they might not listen. Because they're curious, impulsive, and at times - depending on the relationship with their parents or simply their own personality - purposedely contrarian.
You have to be realist, accept the scenario and make sure they use precaution whenever they do it, be it 13 or 35.

There you go, now we're making some sense.
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 Cerberus.Laconic
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By Cerberus.Laconic 2015-07-04 12:21:18
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Valefor.Sehachan said: »
You can encourage them to wait, that's fine. But you have to take into account they might not listen. Because they're curious, impulsive, and at times - depending on the relationship with their parents or simply their own personality - purposedely contrarian.
You have to be realist, accept the scenario and make sure they use precaution whenever they do it, be it 13 or 35.

So just because other people cannot control their children and are bad parents the school gets to make decisions about my child behind my back. "the whole reason this discussion started"
 Odin.Jassik
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By Odin.Jassik 2015-07-04 12:22:08
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Cerberus.Laconic said: »
Odin.Jassik said: »
Take abstinence and helicoptering off the table as your primary solution and you won't be so ripe for mockery.

Abstinence for 12-13-14 year olds should not be ripe for mockery, Neither should being a good parent.

Being a good parent doesn't keep a teenager from making a poor decision, period. Hope for the best but plan for the worst. Your kids are going to have sex, at some point, and chances are it will be sooner than you'd like. Abstinence education relies on blatant lies about the efficacy of condoms. It's not simply that you advocate abstinence, its that abstinence as a plan is laughably naive and repeatedly results in higher teen pregnancy and STD transmission rates.
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 Valefor.Sehachan
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By Valefor.Sehachan 2015-07-04 12:24:16
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*sighs*
It's not about being bad parent. You could be the best parent in the world but kids are going to make their experiences. It's part of growing up. Just be happy said growth process isn't impaired by pregnancy or illnesses.
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 Cerberus.Laconic
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By Cerberus.Laconic 2015-07-04 12:25:15
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Odin.Jassik said: »
Cerberus.Laconic said: »
Odin.Jassik said: »
Take abstinence and helicoptering off the table as your primary solution and you won't be so ripe for mockery.

Abstinence for 12-13-14 year olds should not be ripe for mockery, Neither should being a good parent.

Being a good parent doesn't keep a teenager from making a poor decision, period. Hope for the best but plan for the worst. Your kids are going to have sex, at some point, and chances are it will be sooner than you'd like. Abstinence education relies on blatant lies about the efficacy of condoms. It's not simply that you advocate abstinence, its that abstinence as a plan is laughably naive and repeatedly results in higher teen pregnancy and STD transmission rates.

You mean abstinence without education* And their you go with the word teenager.
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By Bahamut.Ravael 2015-07-04 12:25:16
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Odin.Jassik said: »
Cerberus.Laconic said: »
Odin.Jassik said: »
Take abstinence and helicoptering off the table as your primary solution and you won't be so ripe for mockery.

Abstinence for 12-13-14 year olds should not be ripe for mockery, Neither should being a good parent.

Being a good parent doesn't keep a teenager from making a poor decision, period. Hope for the best but plan for the worst. Your kids are going to have sex, at some point, and chances are it will be sooner than you'd like. Abstinence education relies on blatant lies about the efficacy of condoms. It's not simply that you advocate abstinence, its that abstinence as a plan is laughably naive and repeatedly results in higher teen pregnancy and STD transmission rates.

Well, if we're talking about the current state of abstinence education, then I can finally see where you're coming from. Sure I support the teaching that abstinence is your safest bet, but I don't agree with how it's being presented in connection with other topics.
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 Valefor.Sehachan
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By Valefor.Sehachan 2015-07-04 12:27:52
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It's a very bad stance to keep "my little angel would enver do such things".
Meanwhile your daughter suspiciously massages her knees.
 Cerberus.Laconic
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By Cerberus.Laconic 2015-07-04 12:28:49
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Valefor.Sehachan said: »
*sighs*
It's not about being bad parent. You could be the best parent in the world but kids are going to make their experiences. It's part of growing up. Just be happy said growth process isn't impaired by pregnancy or illnesses.

Yea it is about parenting. You can say it isn't until you are blue in the face, it won't change it.

Parents need to form better relationships with their children and actually raise them instead of tossing them in daycare and letting other people raise them for their entire childhood.
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By Cerberus.Pleebo 2015-07-04 12:28:53
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Cerberus.Laconic said: »
Valefor.Sehachan said: »
You can encourage them to wait, that's fine. But you have to take into account they might not listen. Because they're curious, impulsive, and at times - depending on the relationship with their parents or simply their own personality - purposedely contrarian.
You have to be realist, accept the scenario and make sure they use precaution whenever they do it, be it 13 or 35.

So just because other people cannot control their children and are bad parents the school gets to make decisions about my child behind my back. "the whole reason this discussion started"
The school isn't making the decision. The kid is. And because mommy and daddy would rather lock them up in the proverbial cage rather than deal with reality, perhaps they're the more mature and rational party.
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 Bahamut.Kara
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By Bahamut.Kara 2015-07-04 12:30:26
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Bahamut.Ravael said: »
I think we're actually closer to a consensus if we actually focus on what the other side is saying as opposed to what we think they're saying.

Where I have a problem is people saying that teenagers should wait until they're "ready". Since the thing that started this discussion was in relation to 12-year-olds, I think it's safe to say that there is no way that a 12-year-old has the mental capacity to fully grasp the potential physical and psychological consequences that come with it. Sure they should be taught all about it anyway, but I highly doubt that a vast majority of kids that age know what being "ready" even means. At least with encouraged abstinence the kids aren't led into a false sense of security beforehand by thinking the whole thing's no big deal because they were able to justify it with their mix of powerful new hormones and faulty logic.
Considering the article posted was intended to spark outrage by using the most extreme example available (a 12 year old) focusing only on this example is just slightly hyperbolic.

Primary Article it linked to:
Quote:
In an email exchange with the Washington State Health Care Authority and CNSNews.com, a Take Charge spokesperson acknowledged that underage students are eligible for a “full array of covered family planning services” at school-based clinics if their parents meet the program’s requirements.

Take Charge added that “a student who does not want their parents to know they are seeking reproductive health services is allowed to apply for Take Charge using their own income, and if they are insured under their parents’ plan, the insurance would not be billed.”

When asked if a sixth grader could get an IUD implanted without parental consent, Take Charge told CNSNews.com: “We encourage all Take Charge providers to offer long-acting reversible contraceptives (LARCs) in their clinics. A young person does not need parental consent to obtain a LARC or any other contraceptive method...If the young person is not choosing abstinence, she would be able to select a LARC and have it inserted without parental consent.”

So while the students can’t get a soda from the cafeteria due to the Seattle School Board’s 2004 ban on junk food, they can get an IUD implanted at their school’s health center without their parents’ knowledge or permission.

An alternative reason for getting birth control that young:

The hypothetical 12 year old could be getting the birth control to regulate their hormones, cycles, and ovarian cysts because their parents refused to let them do this at a doctors office. As birth control is assumed to only be used for sex when it is aften prescribed by doctors during the first few years of a females menstration cycle, often for the reasons I listed above.

As girls enter menstration cycles earlier than previous generations more issues are occuring. Personal experience: I started birth control at 11 based on a recommendation from my doctor because of painful ovarian cysts. My mother did not want me to and forbid me from telling anyone after I started, because of the social stigma attached to it.
 Odin.Jassik
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By Odin.Jassik 2015-07-04 12:32:23
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Cerberus.Laconic said: »
You mean abstinence without education* And their you go with the word teenager.

What's wrong with portraying a 13 year old as a teenager? Or is 12 too young but 13 is fine? If 13 is too young, what about 14? Why does something as incredibly variable as physical and mental maturity get boiled down to the semantics of a single numerical label? Because you need it to be preteen in order to make it sound more abhorrent.

Bahamut.Ravael said: »
Well, if we're talking about the current state of abstinence education, then I can finally see where you're coming from. Sure I support the teaching that abstinence is your safest bet, but I don't agree with how it's being presented in connection with other topics.

It's not even just the state of current abstinence education. There is no impact to teaching kids about safe sex if you deny them access to the tools to practice it. Kids make poor decisions, they don't always listen to their parents, and if they're taught about safe sex but don't have condoms or hormonal contraception available, WHEN they have sex, they have a dramatically higher chance of contracting an STD or getting pregnant.

What sense is there in even telling them if you don't give them the tools? None, which is why everyone balks at abstinence even being discussed.
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 Cerberus.Laconic
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By Cerberus.Laconic 2015-07-04 12:32:57
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Cerberus.Pleebo said: »
Cerberus.Laconic said: »
Valefor.Sehachan said: »
You can encourage them to wait, that's fine. But you have to take into account they might not listen. Because they're curious, impulsive, and at times - depending on the relationship with their parents or simply their own personality - purposedely contrarian.
You have to be realist, accept the scenario and make sure they use precaution whenever they do it, be it 13 or 35.

So just because other people cannot control their children and are bad parents the school gets to make decisions about my child behind my back. "the whole reason this discussion started"
The school isn't making the decision. The kid is. And because mommy and daddy would rather lock them up in the proverbial cage rather than deal with reality, perhaps they're the more mature and rational party.

So how exactly are they getting to the doctor without their parents taking them?
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