Random Politics & Religion #00
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Random Politics & Religion #00
I can be smug about some things like beer but religion I take a laissez faire attitude.
I swear some of you think atheists go around and shout at any religious people lol.
I have no shame in saying my taste for fundamentalism is zilch. I see no reason to coddle what eventually grows into a monster that will strip you of rights and see you killed. Fundies are lunatics who say what they mean and make no illusion that they want a theocracy of stupidity. As for everyday religion? Who cares. I don't get the incentive but frankly I don't get why people do alot of things. Treat me with respect and you'll get the same in return. If that means praying to saints or doing your diet bans whatever. More pork for me. P.S - Don't knock on my door. I don't want to hear the 'good news' unless that's a *** served with bacon and a side of ice cream.
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Bahamut.Ravael said: » fonewear said: » Since when do secular people care so much about religion so much ? Is this late breaking news or something. When they have a chance to harm it, they suddenly take great interest. Religion has no place in government. you want to open up debate on whether or not we should do something based in reality? fine. You want the nation to follow some rule because "god said so" well you can just walk right out the door as you should well be ignored. No one is here to destroy religion as you would like to fear monger. People are only fighting for what should have been the norm long ago. It's always funny to me though the sheer hipocrisy of it all as religious institutions have no problem attacking other people in whatever way and creating their own justifications but when they start to feel any heat they cry foul. Lakshmi.Sparthosx said: » I swear some of you think atheists go around and shout at any religious people lol. I have no shame in saying my taste for fundamentalism is zilch. I see no reason to coddle what eventually grows into a monster that will strip you of rights and see you killed. Fundies are lunatics who say what they mean and make no illusion that they want a theocracy of stupidity. As for everyday religion? Who cares. I don't get the incentive but frankly I don't get why people do alot of things. Treat me with respect and you'll get the same in return. If that means praying to saints or doing your diet bans whatever. More pork for me. P.S - Don't knock on my door. I don't want to hear the 'good news' unless that's a *** served with bacon and a side of ice cream. If I respect you that means I have to respect myself and being a man I won't nay I can't do that ! Lakshmi.Flavin said: » Bahamut.Ravael said: » fonewear said: » Since when do secular people care so much about religion so much ? Is this late breaking news or something. When they have a chance to harm it, they suddenly take great interest. Religion has no place in government. you want to open up debate on whether or not we should do something based in reality? fine. You want the nation to follow some rule because "god said so" well you can just walk right out the door as you should well be ignored. No one is here to destroy religion as you would like to fear monger. People are only fighting for what should have been the norm long ago. It's always funny to me though the sheer hipocrisy of it all as religious institutions have no problem attacking other people in whatever way and creating their own justifications but when they start to feel any heat they cry foul. Damn straight I was calling for gay marriage in 1776 ! Lakshmi.Flavin said: » Bahamut.Ravael said: » fonewear said: » Since when do secular people care so much about religion so much ? Is this late breaking news or something. When they have a chance to harm it, they suddenly take great interest. Religion has no place in government. you want to open up debate on whether or not we should do something based in reality? fine. You want the nation to follow some rule because "god said so" well you can just walk right out the door as you should well be ignored. No one is here to destroy religion as you would like to fear monger. People are only fighting for what should have been the norm long ago. It's always funny to me though the sheer hipocrisy of it all as religious institutions have no problem attacking other people in whatever way and creating their own justifications but when they start to feel any heat they cry foul. There are bad religions just like there are bad organizations of any kind. There are people who develop morals based on what they read from ancient texts, people who base their morals on what they see on Jersey Shore, and people who base their morals on everything they were told by some cult of personality professor. You cannot remove religion from government unless you remove all religious people from government. Religion motivates and shapes people. Its teachings have played a role in the development of laws on all sides of the political spectrum. If you want to punish the zealots, fine. Taking it out on all churches isn't the answer.
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I'm pretty sure the founding fathers were thinking about gay marriage back in 1776. They just didn't have the Supreme Court that could pass it !
If I remember history and surely I don't. I think we left Britain for freedom of religion but who the hell remembers anything from 200 plus years ago let alone 2 days ago !
Bahamut.Ravael said: » Caitsith.Zahrah said: » Why should any non-profit deserve tax-exempt status? I'm for keeping the status quo or holding them to donation percentages that match other non-profits. Additionally, what exactly do you want taxed? Donations to churches? Hey guys, let's keep church and state separate... except when it comes to church donations, let's take a slice of that pie. Everything else though, totally separate you guys. For the same reason that people who don't have income don't pay taxes, the same reason companies who don't turn a profit in a given year don't have income tax liabilities. It's INCOME tax, not existence tax. The difference is that secular non-profits have to prove that they aren't making a profit, churches don't have to prove anything. Why should they not be held to the same standard as the first amendment requires? You realize people setup religious establishments as a tax dodge, right? And that faith based companies are different than churches?
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Bahamut.Ravael said: » Caitsith.Zahrah said: » Why should any non-profit deserve tax-exempt status? I'm for keeping the status quo or holding them to donation percentages that match other non-profits. Additionally, what exactly do you want taxed? Donations to churches? Hey guys, let's keep church and state separate... except when it comes to church donations, let's take a slice of that pie. Everything else though, totally separate you guys. Well, do you see how some of their less than pragmatic spending of donations in the name of expansion could be a smidge hypocritical? I'm not trying to detract from the honest to goodness, charitable, small congregations out there who observe a more minimalist approach. Mega-churches are a prime example of the hypocrisy of some Christian denominations. It's akin to the massive cathedrals erected in throughout Europe, but more of an eyesore with all the recreational amenities to isolate their flock. Individual parishioners should pay via income tax by opting in, the way Northern Europe approaches it. I know Jassik already strummed on the dilemma of people taking advantage of tax exempt status for churches (people do the same with farm/business exemptions also). How do you solve problems like the sociopathic Warren Jeffs and David Bergs of the world when you allot them their free rides?
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Caitsith.Zahrah said: » Bahamut.Ravael said: » Caitsith.Zahrah said: » Why should any non-profit deserve tax-exempt status? I'm for keeping the status quo or holding them to donation percentages that match other non-profits. Additionally, what exactly do you want taxed? Donations to churches? Hey guys, let's keep church and state separate... except when it comes to church donations, let's take a slice of that pie. Everything else though, totally separate you guys. Well, do you see how some of their less than pragmatic spending of donations in the name of expansion could be a smidge hypocritical? I'm not trying to detract from the honest to goodness, charitable, small congregations out there who observe a more minimalist approach. Mega-churches are a prime example of the hypocrisy of some Christian denominations. It's akin to the massive cathedrals erected in throughout Europe, but more of an eyesore with all the recreational amenities to isolate their flock. Individual parishioners should pay via income tax by opting in, the way Northern Europe approaches it. I know Jassik already strummed on the dilemma of people taking advantage of tax exempt status for churches (people do the same with farm/business exemptions also). How do you solve problems like the sociopathic Warren Jeffs and David Bergs of the world when you allot them their free rides? You make a law to keep them in Utah where they belong ! Caitsith.Zahrah said: » Well, do you see how some of their less than pragmatic spending of donations in the name of expansion could be a smidge hypocritical? So, churches should stay the same size forever? I don't get what you're trying to imply. If you have the followers, why wouldn't you use donations to expand your meeting places to accompany them? Evangelical mega-churches make me queasy and I would hate to have to sit through a service at one (for a number of reasons), but I don't expect them to hold a meeting with thousands of people in a shack because heaven forbid they use the money to expand. Caitsith.Zahrah said: » How do you solve problems like the sociopathic Warren Jeffs and David Bergs of the world when you allot them their free rides? I have no idea what this has to do with taxes. Would taxes magically stop them? Odin.Jassik said: » For the same reason that people who don't have income don't pay taxes, the same reason companies who don't turn a profit in a given year don't have income tax liabilities. It's INCOME tax, not existence tax. The difference is that secular non-profits have to prove that they aren't making a profit, churches don't have to prove anything. Why should they not be held to the same standard as the first amendment requires? You realize people setup religious establishments as a tax dodge, right? And that faith based companies are different than churches? I'm not suggesting that churches have super special privileges or anything. They can be audited if any wrongdoing is suspected, and anything beyond that is really out of my realm of expertise. I still think that taxing their donations is beyond stupid, though. Also, there are a ton of ways to legally and illegally tax dodge. We shouldn't punish all churches because of some exploitative scumbags.
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Bahamut.Ravael said: » Caitsith.Zahrah said: » Well, do you see how some of their less than pragmatic spending of donations in the name of expansion could be a smidge hypocritical? So, churches should stay the same size forever? I don't get what you're trying to imply. If you have the followers, why wouldn't you use donations to expand your meeting places to accompany them? Evangelical mega-churches make me queasy and I would hate to have to sit through a service at one (for a number of reasons), but I don't expect them to hold a meeting with thousands of people in a shack because heaven forbid they use the money to expand. Caitsith.Zahrah said: » How do you solve problems like the sociopathic Warren Jeffs and David Bergs of the world when you allot them their free rides? I have no idea what this has to do with taxes. Would taxes magically stop them? Taxes do pay for love though ! Bahamut.Ravael said: » Odin.Jassik said: » For the same reason that people who don't have income don't pay taxes, the same reason companies who don't turn a profit in a given year don't have income tax liabilities. It's INCOME tax, not existence tax. The difference is that secular non-profits have to prove that they aren't making a profit, churches don't have to prove anything. Why should they not be held to the same standard as the first amendment requires? You realize people setup religious establishments as a tax dodge, right? And that faith based companies are different than churches? I'm not suggesting that churches have super special privileges or anything. They can be audited if any wrongdoing is suspected, and anything beyond that is really out of my realm of expertise. I still think that taxing their donations is beyond stupid, though. Also, there are a ton of ways to legally and illegally tax dodge. We shouldn't punish all churches because of some exploitative scumbags. Definitely, but, as you mentioned, the mega-churches. The ones where the pastor is a millionaire, the ones that make tens or hundreds millions a year through TV broadcasting. They aren't playing by the same rules. Similarly, churches that have massive expansion projects to soak up donation dollars not because they need them, but because they need to make the funds disappear for tax purposes. A lot of churches have invested donation dollars in real estate, not for church based activities, but for commercial returns. Nobody is saying tax their donations, they're saying make them accountable to the same standards that secular non-profits are. I'd even go a step further and set some minimum requirements for all tax-exempt entities. Require charities to spend a certain percent of their donations on their target function. 80-90% administration cost is ***. I'm advocating removing the religious portion from the non-profit portion and making everyone accountable to the same standards.
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Paying taxes is punishment? I pay them. What am I being punished for?
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Cerberus.Pleebo said: » Paying taxes is punishment? I pay them. What am I being punished for? The question is are you paying your "fair share" everybody should pay more taxes ! Lakshmi.Sparthosx said: » I swear some of you think atheists go around and shout at any religious people lol. I have no shame in saying my taste for fundamentalism is zilch. I see no reason to coddle what eventually grows into a monster that will strip you of rights and see you killed. Fundies are lunatics who say what they mean and make no illusion that they want a theocracy of stupidity. As for everyday religion? Who cares. I don't get the incentive but frankly I don't get why people do alot of things. Treat me with respect and you'll get the same in return. If that means praying to saints or doing your diet bans whatever. More pork for me. P.S - Don't knock on my door. I don't want to hear the 'good news' unless that's a *** served with bacon and a side of ice cream. The thing is they do exactly that. They can't just be a "non believer" in peace they have to tell you about it. Example: YouTube Video Placeholder Cerberus.Pleebo said: » Paying taxes is punishment? I pay them. What am I being punished for? You know what you're being punished for... The thing is what if you enjoy being punished for your sins ?
Cerberus.Pleebo said: » Paying taxes is punishment? I pay them. What am I being punished for? Oh good, just let me impose additional taxes on you that you aren't paying right now simply because I don't like the way that you view things. Clearly it's no big deal to you.
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Who needs friends when you got smug jerk *** on the internet !
It's a club that refuses to acknowledge they have friends. Other than their own sense of superiority ! Does Reddit count as a friend ?
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Odin.Jassik said: » Bahamut.Ravael said: » Odin.Jassik said: » For the same reason that people who don't have income don't pay taxes, the same reason companies who don't turn a profit in a given year don't have income tax liabilities. It's INCOME tax, not existence tax. The difference is that secular non-profits have to prove that they aren't making a profit, churches don't have to prove anything. Why should they not be held to the same standard as the first amendment requires? You realize people setup religious establishments as a tax dodge, right? And that faith based companies are different than churches? I'm not suggesting that churches have super special privileges or anything. They can be audited if any wrongdoing is suspected, and anything beyond that is really out of my realm of expertise. I still think that taxing their donations is beyond stupid, though. Also, there are a ton of ways to legally and illegally tax dodge. We shouldn't punish all churches because of some exploitative scumbags. Definitely, but, as you mentioned, the mega-churches. The ones where the pastor is a millionaire, the ones that make tens or hundreds millions a year through TV broadcasting. They aren't playing by the same rules. Similarly, churches that have massive expansion projects to soak up donation dollars not because they need them, but because they need to make the funds disappear for tax purposes. A lot of churches have invested donation dollars in real estate, not for church based activities, but for commercial returns. Nobody is saying tax their donations, they're saying make them accountable to the same standards that secular non-profits are. I'd even go a step further and set some minimum requirements for all tax-exempt entities. Require charities to spend a certain percent of their donations on their target function. 80-90% administration cost is ***. I'm advocating removing the religious portion from the non-profit portion and making everyone accountable to the same standards. I'm not sure I agree with you, but at least you're starting to sound rational. This is one of the only posts I see from that side without major straw-grasping or a non-sequitur. I don't know how it would all look logistically, but equalizing the field at least sounds good in theory. Making everyone accountable I refuse to be accountable for my actions. That is why my doctor has me on the SSRI pills !
So when little Billy goes and shoots up the high school we can all lame blame where it belongs on the pills. Maybe Billy is depressed sometimes but who isn't ? Hell with that give the kid more pills.
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Like most rational people the way to deal with depression is with a drinking problem. That or blame women. Whichever you are more comfortable with.
Speaking of which Church is a good place to meet women. fonewear said: » Making everyone accountable I refuse to be accountable for my actions. That is why my doctor has me on the SSRI pills ! So when little Billy goes and shoots up the high school we can all lame blame where it belongs on the pills. Maybe Billy is depressed sometimes but who isn't ? Hell with that give the kid more pills. Make him chew the pills. You know, like all the tough guys in the movies.
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I might start going to church to meet me a nice girl. You meet them once a week. Just long enough to miss them not long enough to be tired of them.
Plus what else do I have to do on a Sunday nothing good on TV. Everyone always says meet a person at work *** that. I don't want to see them everyday ! Who knew religion could save your soul and find you a soul mate all at the same time.
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fonewear said: » I might start going to church to meet me a nice girl. You meet them once a week. Just long enough to miss them not long enough to be tired of them. Plus what else do I have to do on a Sunday nothing good on TV. Everyone always says meet a person at work *** that. I don't want to see them everyday ! True story. If you meet them at work then they probably already know how much money you make, which may or may not be a good thing.
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Bahamut.Ravael said: » fonewear said: » I might start going to church to meet me a nice girl. You meet them once a week. Just long enough to miss them not long enough to be tired of them. Plus what else do I have to do on a Sunday nothing good on TV. Everyone always says meet a person at work *** that. I don't want to see them everyday ! True story. If you meet them at work then they probably already know how much money you make, which may or may not be a good thing. There are a few attractive women where I work but due to feminism anything besides hi is sexual harassment. So what you get is a culture of men and women that could be friends even more than friends. But are afraid to even acknowledge the opposite sex exists. Perfect way to make you motivated for work ! Which is why churches should pay taxes !
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I never though I'd say this but I'm starting to miss the gay marriage discussion. At least it is more interesting than taxes.
Maybe Jeb Bush will institute a gay voter tax. That would make the debates interesting !
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