Random Politics & Religion #00

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Random Politics & Religion #00
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By Jetackuu 2014-11-21 15:39:12
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volkom said: »
so for like 42 years the climate only shifted less than 1 degree C?

1 degree centigrade is a very large number when you're talking about the climate of the planet.
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By Ragnarok.Nausi 2014-11-21 15:42:23
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volkom said: »
Bahamut.Milamber said: »
Ragnarok.Nausi said: »
Cerberus.Pleebo said: »
Time for my favorite graph!


First thanks for at least acknowledging that there has not been warming over the last 18 years.

Wow, seriously, do you just not know how to read graphs?
What does the legend on the left axis say? Specifically, what is the last word before the unit designation?

Do you understand what that word means? Good.
So, what does a flat line on a graph with that word mean? Well, it means that unless it is at 0.0, you have some of that word, either positive or negative, depending on if it is above or below 0.0.

There do not appear to be any points from 1996 onwards which are at 0.0, or below 0.0.
What does that mean? Well, that means that you have some of that word, in the positive direction, each year.

Which is the exact opposite of what you are saying it says.
so for like 42 years the climate only shifted less than 1 degree C?
No no he's saying that from around 1985, every year has been hotter than the other by anywhere from 0 degrees centigrade to .6 degrees centigrade. So if you take the average of that which is .3 degrees centigrade over 29 years it would make the earth 9.7 degrees centigrade warmer than it was in 1985.

Clearly he's lost his mind.
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By Leviathan.Chaosx 2014-11-21 15:45:16
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Don't forget you can't include the past 15-18 years cause of the global pause.
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 Ragnarok.Nausi
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By Ragnarok.Nausi 2014-11-21 15:46:18
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Ha!
 Bahamut.Milamber
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By Bahamut.Milamber 2014-11-21 15:47:33
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Ragnarok.Nausi said: »
volkom said: »
Bahamut.Milamber said: »
Ragnarok.Nausi said: »
Cerberus.Pleebo said: »
Time for my favorite graph!


First thanks for at least acknowledging that there has not been warming over the last 18 years.

Wow, seriously, do you just not know how to read graphs?
What does the legend on the left axis say? Specifically, what is the last word before the unit designation?

Do you understand what that word means? Good.
So, what does a flat line on a graph with that word mean? Well, it means that unless it is at 0.0, you have some of that word, either positive or negative, depending on if it is above or below 0.0.

There do not appear to be any points from 1996 onwards which are at 0.0, or below 0.0.
What does that mean? Well, that means that you have some of that word, in the positive direction, each year.

Which is the exact opposite of what you are saying it says.
so for like 42 years the climate only shifted less than 1 degree C?
No no he's saying that from around 1985, every year has been hotter than the other by anywhere from 0 degrees centigrade to .6 degrees centigrade. So if you take the average of that which is .3 degrees centigrade over 29 years it would make the earth 9.7 degrees centigrade warmer than it was in 1985.

Clearly he's lost his mind.
No, I just made a mistake. I've corrected the original post with an edit, describing that it is change with regards to a reference temperature (assuming 1970), rather than year over year changes.
That's the egg on my face I get for an incorrect assumption.
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By Jetackuu 2014-11-21 15:48:35
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Ragnarok.Nausi said: »
No no he's saying that from around 1985, every year has been hotter than the other by anywhere from 0 degrees centigrade to .6 degrees centigrade. So if you take the average of that which is .3 degrees centigrade over 29 years it would make the earth 9.7 degrees centigrade warmer than it was in 1985.

Clearly he's lost his mind.
Where the *** did you get 9.7 from?
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By Ragnarok.Nausi 2014-11-21 15:49:15
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So then Milamber, we can all agree there has been no warming for the last 18 years?
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By Cerberus.Pleebo 2014-11-21 15:50:34
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Jetackuu said: »
volkom said: »
so for like 42 years the climate only shifted less than 1 degree C?

1 degree centigrade is a very large number when you're talking about the climate of the planet.
That and you have to also consider the rate of change (delta X over delta Y).

And yes (not directed at Jet), you would include the last 15 years. Thing is, it won't make a difference.
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By Ragnarok.Nausi 2014-11-21 15:51:05
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Jetackuu said: »
Ragnarok.Nausi said: »
No no he's saying that from around 1985, every year has been hotter than the other by anywhere from 0 degrees centigrade to .6 degrees centigrade. So if you take the average of that which is .3 degrees centigrade over 29 years it would make the earth 9.7 degrees centigrade warmer than it was in 1985.

Clearly he's lost his mind.
Where the *** did you get 9.7 from?

.3C per year for 29 years? Oh wait that's 8.7. Whatevs it's 5pm on a Friday I'm winging my maths at this point.
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By Ragnarok.Nausi 2014-11-21 15:52:05
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Cerberus.Pleebo said: »
Jetackuu said: »
volkom said: »
so for like 42 years the climate only shifted less than 1 degree C?

1 degree centigrade is a very large number when you're talking about the climate of the planet.
That and you have to also consider the rate of change (delta X over delta Y).

And yes (not directed at Jet), you would include the last 15 years. Thing is, it won't make a difference.

Right catastrophe is JUST around the corner. Any day now the world will end. Sound the alarm! Raise taxes! Restrict liberties and freedoms. Western life is a cancer on the world and it's time we all paid the price.
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By Bahamut.Milamber 2014-11-21 15:53:37
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Ragnarok.Nausi said: »
So then Milamber, we can all agree there has been no warming for the last 18 years?
No, because you have a shift from 0.4 to 0.6, a best fit line would still have a non-zero, positive slope in that range. Unless it wasn't 1996 18 years ago.
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By Cerberus.Pleebo 2014-11-21 15:54:06
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Ragnarok.Nausi said: »
Right catastrophe is JUST around the corner. Any day now the world will end. Sound the alarm! Raise taxes! Restrict liberties and freedoms. Western life is a cancer on the world and it's time we all paid the price.
Mhmm, that's exactly what I said.

I realize there's no point talking to you about this because it isn't really about science. With deniers, it's solely political as demonstrated by your complete avoidance or incoherence when actually confronted with the evidence. It does help me refamiliarize myself with the topic though since I don't much deal with climate studies anymore. Thanks!
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By Jetackuu 2014-11-21 15:59:07
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Ragnarok.Nausi said: »
Jetackuu said: »
Ragnarok.Nausi said: »
No no he's saying that from around 1985, every year has been hotter than the other by anywhere from 0 degrees centigrade to .6 degrees centigrade. So if you take the average of that which is .3 degrees centigrade over 29 years it would make the earth 9.7 degrees centigrade warmer than it was in 1985.

Clearly he's lost his mind.
Where the *** did you get 9.7 from?

.3C per year for 29 years? Oh wait that's 8.7. Whatevs it's 5pm on a Friday I'm winging my maths at this point.
I think we've established part of the problem, but nice try on trying to blame 5pm on Friday.
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By Jetackuu 2014-11-21 16:00:47
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Cerberus.Pleebo said: »
Jetackuu said: »
volkom said: »
so for like 42 years the climate only shifted less than 1 degree C?

1 degree centigrade is a very large number when you're talking about the climate of the planet.
That and you have to also consider the rate of change (delta X over delta Y).

And yes (not directed at Jet), you would include the last 15 years. Thing is, it won't make a difference.
Don't use that kind of language on me, I didn't do a thing to you.

/cries

oh that reminds me, I have to go do 36 physics problems, ***.
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By Cerberus.Pleebo 2014-11-21 16:21:11
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I *** it up anyway. Should be Y/X.

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By Jetackuu 2014-11-21 16:27:28
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YouTube Video Placeholder
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 Cerberus.Pleebo
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By Cerberus.Pleebo 2014-11-21 21:51:35
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It's time for everybody's favorite board game...

BENGHAZI

House intel panel debunks many Benghazi theories
Quote:
Rep. Adam Schiff, a California Democrat who serves on the intelligence panel and the Benghazi select committee, said, "It's my hope that this report will put to rest many of the questions that have been asked and answered yet again, and that the Benghazi Select Committee will accept these findings and instead focus its attention on the State Department's progress in securing our facilities around the world and standing up our fast response capabilities."
Oh, Mr. Schiff, you naive little man...
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By Shiva.Viciousss 2014-11-21 21:57:24
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We pretty much knew all of that already lol. The "stand down" rumor was junk from the start.
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By Cerberus.Pleebo 2014-11-21 22:08:38
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But do we really know what happened now? Like really REALLY? Think about it.
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 Bahamut.Ravael
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By Bahamut.Ravael 2014-11-21 22:38:55
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Shiva.Viciousss said: »
We pretty much knew all of that already lol. The "stand down" rumor was junk from the start.

What part of the stand down order? The security agents who wanted to go to the embassy to help were told to stand down, according to their own testimonies.
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By Altimaomega 2014-11-21 22:43:57
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Something amazing happened while I've been away. Didn't think it would have been possible to get everyone to agree the warming has stopped for 15-18yrs. Then Nausi say this.

Ragnarok.Nausi said: »
Quote:
In the big picture, it really isn't. The whole fulcrum of the alarmist's attitude is more CO2 = more warming. The last 18 years have seen the HIGHEST concentrations of CO2 since the industrial revolution. Yet there has been is NO warming.

Clearly CO2 (human existence) isn't driving the climate car.

Which should have been /thread. But No.

Pleebo does this.

Cerberus.Pleebo said: »
I realize there's no point talking to you about this because it isn't really about science. With deniers, it's solely political as demonstrated by your complete avoidance or incoherence when actually confronted with the evidence. It does help me refamiliarize myself with the topic though since I don't much deal with climate studies anymore. Thanks!

But us conservatives are branded the "crazy irrational ones".
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By Altimaomega 2014-11-21 22:44:23
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Then Pleebo changes topic hoping nobody notices.
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 Odin.Jassik
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By Odin.Jassik 2014-11-21 22:48:52
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If you want to grab one of the warmest years in the last 20 and compare it to last year and claim that it's not warming, go ahead, but you're just proving once again how little you understand about science.

At least people like Rav question specific data samples, you just state the same stupid stuff over and over even after being proven wrong repeatedly.
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 Cerberus.Pleebo
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By Cerberus.Pleebo 2014-11-21 23:00:57
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Altimaomega said: »
Care to comment on my actual reply to that post?

Altimaomega said: »
Then Pleebo changes topic hoping nobody notices.
It was bait, actually.
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By Shiva.Viciousss 2014-11-21 23:11:46
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Bahamut.Ravael said: »
Shiva.Viciousss said: »
We pretty much knew all of that already lol. The "stand down" rumor was junk from the start.

What part of the stand down order? The security agents who wanted to go to the embassy to help were told to stand down, according to their own testimonies.

Yeah and guess what? They were at best, exaggerating, but really, we all know they took a paycheck to appear on Fox News and "exaggerate." They were never ordered to stand down, they were told they weren't going anywhere without orders by their team leader. There is a clear difference, and it didn't fool the House committee, or anyone with a brain.
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By Altimaomega 2014-11-21 23:12:50
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Odin.Jassik said: »
If you want to grab one of the warmest years in the last 20 and compare it to last year and claim that it's not warming, go ahead, but you're just proving once again how little you understand about science.

At least people like Rav question specific data samples, you just state the same stupid stuff over and over even after being proven wrong repeatedly.

Why the last 20yrs? Lets really blow your simple little mind and say that this whole global warming thing has happen before! Only without the help of man and his evil CO2!

Quote:
The Medieval Warm Period (MWP) was previously accepted as a warm period that occurred in the time frame of about 1000-1400 AD. That is, until the advent of IPCC and Mann’s hockey stick – now many claim the MWP never happened, or that it was a minimal regional event. But most scientists do not accept the recent IPCC-inspired rejection of the MWP, which was based on Mann’s flawed study.



Red Line – 1980’s Accepted Temperature Trend, Blue Line – IPCC 2001 Hockey Stick, Black Line – Moberg et. al

Quote:
The IPCC 1990 report showed the temperature graph of the red line in the above figure, which indicates the MWP and the Little Ice Age (LIA). But in the IPCC 1995 report, the only pre-instrumental temperature trend figure included uses a northern hemisphere temperature reconstruction, starting in 1400 -thus leaving out the MWP. The IPCC 2001 report (TAR) shows temperature reconstructions starting from 1000 AD from Mann, Jones and Briffa and prominently displays the hockey-stick graph as shown previously. The TAR states: “the posited Medieval Warm Period appears to have been less distinct, more moderate in amplitude… The Northern Hemisphere mean temperature estimates of Jones et al. (1998), Mann et al. (1999), and Crowley and Lowery (2000) show temperatures from the 11th to 14th centuries to be about 0.2°C warmer than those from the 15th to 19th centuries, but rather below mid-20th century temperatures. Thus current evidence does not support globally synchronous periods of anomalous cold or warmth over this timeframe, and the conventional terms of "Little Ice Age" and "Medieval Warm Period" appear to have limited utility in describing trends in hemispheric or global mean temperature changes in past centuries”.


This IPCC statement is at odds with the findings of other scientists. For example, research at the Harvard-Smithsonian Center for Astrophysics report on a recent paper using proxies, which verifies the occurrence of the MWP: [http://cfa-www.harvard.edu/press/pr0310.html] “A review of more than 200 climate studies led by researchers at the Harvard-Smithsonian Center for Astrophysics has determined that the 20th century is neither the warmest century nor the century with the most extreme weather of the past 1000 years. The review also confirmed that the Medieval Warm Period of 800 to 1300 A.D. and the Little Ice Age of 1300 to 1900 A.D. were worldwide phenomena not limited to the European and North American continents. While 20th century temperatures are much higher than in the Little Ice Age period, many parts of the world show the medieval warmth to be greater than that of the 20th century.”
http://appinsys.com/globalwarming/GW_Part1_PreHistoricalRecord.htm#mwp
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By Altimaomega 2014-11-21 23:13:27
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Cerberus.Pleebo said: »
Altimaomega said: »
Care to comment on my actual reply to that post?

Altimaomega said: »
Then Pleebo changes topic hoping nobody notices.
It was bait, actually.

Gee I never would have guessed.
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By Jetackuu 2014-11-21 23:13:48
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Bahamut.Ravael said: »
Shiva.Viciousss said: »
We pretty much knew all of that already lol. The "stand down" rumor was junk from the start.

What part of the stand down order? The security agents who wanted to go to the embassy to help were told to stand down, according to their own testimonies.
Regardless if there was or wasn't an order (in fact I would prefer if there was, it would mean that they're actually smart about when to deploy), it was way beyond any point in which they could have saved anyone, that to me would just be recklessly endangering more American lives for no good reason.

But that was from reading timelines about it some time ago, why do people still try to make this a thing?
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By Jetackuu 2014-11-21 23:14:59
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Shiva.Viciousss said: »
Bahamut.Ravael said: »
Shiva.Viciousss said: »
We pretty much knew all of that already lol. The "stand down" rumor was junk from the start.

What part of the stand down order? The security agents who wanted to go to the embassy to help were told to stand down, according to their own testimonies.

Yeah and guess what? They were at best, exaggerating, but really, we all know they took a paycheck to appear on Fox News and "exaggerate." They were never ordered to stand down, they were told they weren't going anywhere without orders by their team leader. There is a clear difference, and it didn't fool the House committee, or anyone with a brain.

Did you just the assert that the members of the House committee had a brain?
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By Bahamut.Ravael 2014-11-21 23:15:08
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Odin.Jassik said: »
If you want to grab one of the warmest years in the last 20 and compare it to last year and claim that it's not warming, go ahead, but you're just proving once again how little you understand about science.

At least people like Rav question specific data samples, you just state the same stupid stuff over and over even after being proven wrong repeatedly.

Thanks, I think. Lately, though, I've had to make a rule to no longer trust any graph or chart that I didn't make myself. Graph manipulation is just too easy, and if someone can't provide an easily accessible, raw data set to go along with it, it might as well just be a pretty picture.
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