Random Politics & Religion #00

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Random Politics & Religion #00
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By Artemicion 2016-02-12 03:56:50
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I did, but it's difficult to articulate your words any other way. Apologies if I somehow misinterpreted that.

Aw nuts, I paged. Anyways, vote for Hank!

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By Altimaomega 2016-02-12 04:06:30
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Artemicion said: »
I did, but it's difficult to articulate your words any other way. Apologies if I somehow misinterpreted that.

Wasn't meant for you. I fixed it. Anyways it was more of a discussion starter and you did so thanks.

Artemicion said: »
I like to see it more as legislate the prosperous into investing in the future of those below them rather than sitting on it for their own gains. Besides, I think the hyper-wealthy have little to nothing to worry about in regards to having their lifestyles threatened.
What right do you have to take something you have not earned?

Artemicion said: »
I don't think this is exactly the Robin Hood scenario you're playing it out to be. Taxes go to a much more fundamental foundation that affords others greater opportunities and other worthwhile investments for the growth and longevity of communities therein.
Some do, not all taxes are bad. Taxes on things that people use like roads and schools are a necessity for everyone. When does taxing everyone that works for a living just so more things can be free stop becoming a necessity? At this point the middle class will be paying for everything for everyone to the cradle to the grave.

Artemicion said: »
I don't even necessarily see how this is a bad thing in particular. That's kind of how taxes work. They're dues to citizens to pay for things that would otherwise not be pragmatic to rely on individuals (or corporations for that matter) to fund and maintain.
Your missing the point.

Artemicion said: »
I think you can. Like I said earlier, it's an investment; and returns can be worthwhile over a long enough timeline. Though I share your pessimism in terms of the ROI figures...
Dividing $100 dollars between five people does not multiply it. Sure if you want to say one or two of those people invest that money it will multiply in time back to the original amount or exceed it. But what kind of timeline is acceptable? 50 yrs.. 100?

Artemicion said: »
I agree that we're quickly approaching a point where the work force will diminish over the rate at which our population increases, but this is more a matter of technological advances, automation and simply creating an environment in which for many tasks, humans need not apply. To that end, I feel the concept of basic income will become a far greater necessity. To what extent? Well, only time will tell.
If we would stop shipping/losing millions of jobs overseas because we tax them out of the country this would not be a problem.
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By Artemicion 2016-02-12 04:20:46
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Altimaomega said: »
What right do you have to take something you have not earned?

We're still talking about taxes right? Cause I'd like to believe these are dues rather than some malicious invisible hand taking money without consent.

Altimaomega said: »
Some do, not all taxes are bad. Taxes on things that people use like roads and schools are a necessity for everyone.

We're fundamentally on the same page. Perhaps not in matters of enforcement, numerical figures or particular establishments, but eye to eye on the most base level nevertheless.


Altimaomega said: »
Your missing the point.

I'm at fault there, as I jumped in on eavesdropping on perhaps the most recent post or two without a larger scale of context. But please me know if I misinterpret or misconstrue your arguments.

Altimaomega said: »
Dividing $100 dollars between five people does not multiply it. Sure if you want to say one or two of those people invest that money it will multiply in time back to the original amount or exceed it. But what kind of timeline is acceptable? 50 yrs.. 100?

I feel it's in the government's (and everyone else for that matter) best interest to use virtually all revenue to extend the longevity and efficiency of fundamental avenues for the people at large to be healthy, educated, and thus usher wealth and prosperity on into the future. Short-term gain is a tough sell to me in federal endeavors, but such is life. I'm sure there's always someone that gets the short end of the stick, but I'd like to see budgeting and transparency to help diminish that. Better not hold my breath eh?

Altimaomega said: »
If we would stop shipping/losing millions of jobs overseas because we tax them out of the country this would not be a problem.

I guess this is where we clash the greatest. I feel the ability to exploit impoverished countries for cheap labor and/or eluding tax laws for their own gain in the first place is the biggest fault more so than the existing taxes that motivated such actions to begin with.
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By Asura.Kingnobody 2016-02-12 08:09:59
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Sylph.Jeanpaul said: »
You're saying these things as if the taxed money would just go directly into the wallets of the poor, and nothing more. Instead, it would be going towards improving essential public services (education, health care, and infrastructure) that benefit technically everybody, especially people who aren't privileged or wealthy. The result is that we should end up with a smarter, healthier, and more effective nation.
You are saying that tax money isn't already going towards the infrastructure. Well, a good chunk of it isn't, it's being wasted on government inefficiency, waste, and corruption.

So, let's tax more so more of that money will go towards inefficiency, waste, and corruption!
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By Phoenix.Amandarius 2016-02-12 08:31:06
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Sylph.Jeanpaul said: »
You're saying these things as if the taxed money would just go directly into the wallets of the poor, and nothing more. Instead, it would be going towards improving essential public services (education, health care, and infrastructure) that benefit technically everybody, especially people who aren't privileged or wealthy. The result is that we should end up with a smarter, healthier, and more effective nation.

Minus about 50% in overhead due to bureaucracy, inefficiency, waste, favoritism, kickbacks and bad ideas based on false premises.
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By Caitsith.Mahayaya 2016-02-12 08:39:25
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Was so happy to see Bernie call out Kissinger for essentially being a war criminal. I've bitched and moaned about Killinger before on these forums and it's great seeing a candidate actually take a position and call him out.
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By Shiva.Nikolce 2016-02-12 08:52:20
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The EPA has approximately 15,193 full-time employees and an annual budget of over 8.2 Billion Dollars which one would assume was for the express purpose of protecting the environment... >.>

The gold king mine release that the EPA was responsible for dumped more than 880,000 pounds of heavy metals into Colorado's Animas River

epa mine spill

"Hays Griswold, a U.S. Environmental Protection agency official in charge of the Gold King mine at the time of the August accident, said in an email that he "personally knew" the plugged, inactive mine could contain large volumes of water."

Whoopsie!

The EPA used a contractor Environmental Restoration LLC.

ERLLC

I wonder who owns that company..... I wonder how they were punished...

Huh...seems they were awarded another 57 million dollar contract in November news

must be nice... probably since they did such a good job in colorado...
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By Asura.Kingnobody 2016-02-12 09:15:52
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Shiva.Nikolce said: »
I wonder who owns that company..... I wonder how they were punished...
Very easy to find out, since they have operations in Texas.

Texas Franchise Tax Account Status. Click the Officers/Directors button and it lists the owner (President) and officers of that LLC.

Things you know when you are/were a tax accountant.
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By Shiva.Nikolce 2016-02-12 09:26:10
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Asura.Kingnobody said: »
Shiva.Nikolce said: »
I wonder who owns that company..... I wonder how they were punished...
Very easy to find out, since they have operations in Texas.

Texas Franchise Tax Account Status. Click the Officers/Directors button and it lists the owner (President) and officers of that LLC.

Things you know when you are/were a tax accountant.

and he testified before congress

dennis greenley

Edit:
my point was it isn't listed on their website
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By Asura.Kingnobody 2016-02-12 09:29:52
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Shiva.Nikolce said: »
Asura.Kingnobody said: »
Shiva.Nikolce said: »
I wonder who owns that company..... I wonder how they were punished...
Very easy to find out, since they have operations in Texas.

Texas Franchise Tax Account Status. Click the Officers/Directors button and it lists the owner (President) and officers of that LLC.

Things you know when you are/were a tax accountant.

and he testified before congress

dennis greenley

Edit:
my point was it isn't listed on their website
Which website, the EPA or that company's website?
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By Asura.Kingnobody 2016-02-12 09:31:48
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Also, in hypocrite news:

Bernie Sanders has backers on Wall Street

Quote:
Meredith Burak is a third-generation Wall Street executive. At 32, she has worked in global wealth management for Bank of America and Merrill Lynch. She thinks Wall Street is one of the few places in the country where people can truly realize the American Dream.

And she's supporting Bernie Sanders for president of the United States.

The same Bernie Sanders who said this about Burak's industry: "The reality is that for the past 40 years, Wall Street and the billionaire class has rigged the rules to redistribute wealth and income to the wealthiest and most powerful people of this country."

Burak doesn't take it personally. "Wall Street has been very good to my family," she said. "It has enabled myself and my cousins and people around me to go to college."

But at the same time, Burak said, Wall Street needs tougher regulation and rules. "People on Wall Street want the game to be fair," she said. "It is when people cheat that things get messed up for everyone. And to the extent that we can have rules and more enforcement to get people like [Ponzi schemer] Bernie Madoff out of the financial system, the better it is for the economy."

Burak said she left Merrill Lynch earlier this month and is traveling in Israel this week, focusing on charitable work on behalf of a cancer foundation in honor of her mother. But Burak said she'll be using the skills she learned on Wall Street for the rest of her career. "I was raised not to talk about politics and money, and somehow I talk about both of them all day," she said with a laugh.

She's not the only one.

Sanders, unlike his Democratic rival Hillary Clinton or many of the Republican candidates, has received a relative pittance in campaign contributions from people in the securities and investment industry: just more than $55,000 in all of 2015, according to the Center for Responsive Politics.

And the vast majority of those financial professionals who have written checks to the Sanders campaign work in regional financial hubs across the country: in cities like Minneapolis, Pittsburgh or San Francisco.

But scattered through the list of Sanders donors are a very small number of people who work in the heart of New York's financial center, with offices on Wall Street and Park Avenue in Manhattan. They include people who are employed at some of the industry's biggest names: JPMorgan (JPM), Citigroup (C), Merrill Lynch and Morgan Stanley (MS).

It's difficult to draw broad conclusions about what drives the political beliefs of such a small group, but their personal experiences may hold a clue. Two of the Sanders supporters on Wall Street work in wealth management — where their jobs necessarily include helping rich people get richer. One holds a position whose purpose appears to be minimizing taxes on hedge funds and alternative investments, based on his LinkedIn description. Some have personal connections to Sanders' home state of Vermont.

Working in an industry where rank-and-file employees and executives overwhelmingly support other candidates, it's perhaps not surprising that the Sanders supporters on Wall Street are reluctant to speak publicly about their political views. "I appreciate your call and the story, but I would rather not participate," said one when contacted by CNBC.

One Sanders supporter explained that he grew up in Vermont, and has fond memories of Sanders campaigning across the state. "Bernie was such a fixture of Vermont politics for many years, so I sort of have a soft spot in my heart for him," this supporter said. And although he contributed to the Sanders campaign, he added that he's not committed to actually voting for Sanders. "I don't know at the end of the day if I would vote for him," he said. "I grew up wearing Bernie T-shirts my dad gave me."

Still, the supporter does not see any irony in Wall Street executives supporting a self-declared democratic socialist. "You've got Warren Buffett — one of the wealthiest people in the country — and he's out there supporting raising taxes and the things that Bernie talks about," he said.

Meredith Burak said her family has known and supported Sanders since he first ran for mayor of Burlington, Vermont, in 1980 — before she was born. But she cites a more recent development — the financial crisis of 2008 — as driving her support for Sanders.

"His issue is if you look at the financial crisis of 2008 and 2009, no one at the top has been brought to court or indicted," she said. "Compare that to this whole generation of African-American and Latino kids who are put in the jail system for having a little bit of pot. There's something wrong there. People need to be held accountable."

Is Bernie feeling the Burn yet?

Either way, liberals/democrats love to attack things they don't understand. Why do you think they want to throw everybody in Wall Street in jail for 2008 when they ignore the other two parts of the problem that lead to the economic collapse in 2008 and 2009?
 
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By Asura.Kingnobody 2016-02-12 09:44:40
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Caitsith.Shiroi said: »
I'm trying to figure out how you came to that conclusion from the article, I just can't see how.
Simple: You honestly think that Sanders will go after people who donated to his cause?

You think he will honestly say "Thank you for the money, when I'm elected I will make sure you spend your life in jail"?

Or are you talking about my commentary paragraph about liberals/democrats ignoring most of the problem?
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By Lakshmi.Sparthosx 2016-02-12 09:52:01
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Did you bother to read KN?

Naturally, a guy who makes regulating Wall Street a platform doesn't have many supporters but the ones that do are keeping quiet to avoid job backlash or support the guy because they're fond of him involved in VT politics. Further, the article straight up dumps that financial services donations to Sanders are low. 55k? Might as well be 0.

You can like a candidate and support them while you know, disliking that they may be a negative on your industry.
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By fonewear 2016-02-12 09:56:54
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I hate everyone so I support Hillary.
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By Shiva.Nikolce 2016-02-12 09:58:02
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Lakshmi.Sparthosx said: »
Did you bother to read

I only skimmed it... but I got more of a "ebenezer scrooge sees the light and decides he loves bernie/socialism" kind of vibe from the article
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By Asura.Kingnobody 2016-02-12 10:00:45
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For somebody who's against Wall Street, one would think he wouldn't accept any money from executives from Wall Street.

It doesn't matter if it's $55,000 or $.01, as soon as he accepts their donation, his rhetoric goes out the window.

As for my commentary, like I said, liberals/democrats are only going after one part of the problem. They are completely ignoring the other two parts that lead the economic collapse of 2008, which is to be expected.

I bet neither Sparth or Shiroi knows either of the 2 other parts of the economic collapse.
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By Shiva.Nikolce 2016-02-12 10:02:42
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Asura.Kingnobody said: »
For somebody who's against Wall Street, one would think he wouldn't accept any money from executives from Wall Street.

but your article says she left wall street "Burak said she left Merrill Lynch earlier this month and is traveling in Israel this week, focusing on charitable work on behalf of a cancer foundation in honor of her mother."
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By Asura.Kingnobody 2016-02-12 10:03:55
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Shiva.Nikolce said: »
Asura.Kingnobody said: »
For somebody who's against Wall Street, one would think he wouldn't accept any money from executives from Wall Street.

but your article says she left wall street "Burak said she left Merrill Lynch earlier this month and is traveling in Israel this week, focusing on charitable work on behalf of a cancer foundation in honor of her mother."
She wasn't the only donor.
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By Shiva.Nikolce 2016-02-12 10:05:23
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Asura.Kingnobody said: »
I bet neither Sparth or Shiroi knows either of the 2 other parts of the economic collapse.

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By Lakshmi.Sparthosx 2016-02-12 10:06:36
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You mean gov't pushes to get everyone into a home which led to subprime mortgages in the attempts to mitigate risk which led to a bubble that would then pop when these shitty loans were bundled, bet against and sold leading to a snowball effect of default and financial ruination?

I admittingly don't understand every detail but I've got the broad idea. Greed feeding greed feeding a political agenda. Banks wanted to make money, pols wanted to taut the American Dream for all. Unsustainable goals that resulted in a massive market correction.
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By Asura.Kingnobody 2016-02-12 10:07:48
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There are 3 parties at fault for the economic collapse of 2008 and 2009.

Wall Street was one of the parties.

I'm waiting for Sparth and Shiroi's guesses before I reveal the other two. If they were paying attention over the years I posted here, they would remember I have already pointed out who the other two parties are.

Edit: Hot damn, Sparth directly named one of the other two and indirectly named the 3rd.
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By Shiva.Nikolce 2016-02-12 10:09:45
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Asura.Kingnobody said: »
She wasn't the only donor.

she is the only one named in the article you posted.
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By Shiva.Nikolce 2016-02-12 10:11:28
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Asura.Kingnobody said: »
There are 3 parties at fault for the economic collapse of 2008 and 2009.

that's great kid....but the article you posted is about bernie sanders... how is anyone else supposed to know wtf you are talking about?
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By Asura.Kingnobody 2016-02-12 10:14:08
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Lakshmi.Sparthosx said: »
You mean gov't pushes to get everyone into a home which led to subprime mortgages in the attempts to mitigate risk which led to a bubble that would then pop when these shitty loans were bundled, bet against and sold leading to a snowball effect of default and financial ruination?

I admittingly don't understand every detail but I've got the broad idea. Greed feeding greed feeding a political agenda. Banks wanted to make money, pols wanted to taut the American Dream for all. Unsustainable goals that resulted in a massive market correction.
You do have the broad idea.

I will never deny Wall Street's involvement with subprime lending and the packaging of bad mortgages into derivatives and other financial tools.

But to deny the government and the public's involvement and only attacking/demeaning Wall Street is not only dishonest, but also setting up another financial collapse in the near future. Hi2u student loan crisis.

I give it another 5-6 years before our next financial crisis, where those who went to college during the financial crisis finally graduates, tries to get into their "dream job" or "degree job" only for it to be flooded (it's already happening in several markets), those graduates unable to pay their loans and the cycle repeats again.

Don't worry, Wall Street and banks will be blamed again. You know, "predatory lending practices" against college students who's most loans come from the federal government (subsidized and unsubsidized loans).
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By Asura.Kingnobody 2016-02-12 10:16:53
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Shiva.Nikolce said: »
Asura.Kingnobody said: »
She wasn't the only donor.

she is the only one named in the article you posted.
Bernie received $55k so far, and the limit on private donations is set at $25k per person, so it goes to show that there are at least 3 donors, more likely a whole lot more, who donated to his cause.

Doesn't matter if she's the only one named. It shows that there are multiple donors (and the fact that he received money from the "enemy," so to say) that makes him a hypocrite.
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By Asura.Kingnobody 2016-02-12 10:19:11
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Shiva.Nikolce said: »
Asura.Kingnobody said: »
There are 3 parties at fault for the economic collapse of 2008 and 2009.

that's great kid....but the article you posted is about bernie sanders... how is anyone else supposed to know wtf you are talking about?
Want me to hold your hand?

Asura.Kingnobody said: »
Why do you think they want to throw everybody in Wall Street in jail for 2008 when they ignore the other two parts of the problem that lead to the economic collapse in 2008 and 2009?
Caitsith.Shiroi said: »
I'm trying to figure out how you came to that conclusion from the article, I just can't see how.
Asura.Kingnobody said: »
Or are you talking about my commentary paragraph about liberals/democrats ignoring most of the problem?
Caitsith.Shiroi said: »
Both
Keep up with the conversation old man.
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By fonewear 2016-02-12 10:19:58
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Bernie has PTSD Wall Street raped him.
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