Random Politics & Religion #00

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Random Politics & Religion #00
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By Jassik 2015-10-12 00:26:38
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Bahamut.Baconwrap said: »
PLCAA completely prevents gun-manufactures from negligence liability. That includes selling weapons in certain areas. Selling a gun in Vermont isn't the same as selling a gun in Chicago or LA. They aren't getting used for the same purpose.

More importantly it creates unique protections for the gun industry. No other industry in the country has such unique protections. Why do gun manufactures deserve such privilege?

I'm not sure where you're going with it, but the gun industry doesn't have any more unique protections than any other industry when it comes to misuse of their products. As I mentioned earlier, Ford isn't liable if you drive your truck through a shopping mall, Crest isn't responsible if you strangle someone with dental floss, etc.

State laws almost universally effect end of the line retailers. Most of the time they're still liable for selling weapons without following laws regarding background checks and waiting periods or selling weapons to people they have reason to believe will use them to commit crimes.

If you have some specific part of the law you disagree with, chances are I'm on the same side as you.
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By Bahamut.Baconwrap 2015-10-12 16:36:05
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Well it looks like Sanders has seen the evil of his gun loving ways lol. He "coincidental" changed his view on holding manufacturers liable days before the debate lol


Bernie Sanders flips on crucial gun control position days ahead of the first Democratic debate


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As the first Democratic presidential debate nears, both leading contenders are working to lessen the distance between themselves on two issues of great importance to the primary base. Last week, it was Hillary Clinton’s opposition to the Trans Pacific Partnership (TPP) trade pact, with the former secretary of state citing its insufficient safeguards for American workers. This week, it is Bernie Sanders’s reconsideration of his longstanding opposition to holding gun manufacturers liable for gun deaths in the wake of a rash of school shootings.

Sanders cited two shootings Friday at universities in Arizona and Texas as well as last week’s slayings at an Oregon community college when he told NBC’s Chuck Todd during a “Meet the Press” interview on Sunday that he’d take another look at his past position. In 2005, Sanders supported legislation protecting gun manufacturers from civil liability lawsuits.

“That was a complicated vote and I’m willing to see changes in that provision,” Sanders said. “Here’s the reason I voted the way I voted: If you are a gun shop owner in Vermont and you sell somebody a gun and that person flips out and then kills somebody, I don’t think it’s really fair to hold that person responsible, the gun shop owner.”

“On the other hand, where there is a problem, is there is evidence that manufacturers, gun manufacturers, do know that they’re selling a whole lot of guns in an area that really should not be buying that many guns, that many of those guns are going to other areas, probably for criminal purposes?” he asked. “So, can we take another look at that liability issue? Yes.”

Sanders, whose sparsely populated home state of Vermont has a good deal of gun owners, has a more conservative record on gun control than his main rival on Tuesday’s debate stage despite having run to Clinton’s left on nearly every other issue.

In the past, Sanders has opposed a five-day waiting period on gun purchases, supported guns in national parks and checked baggage on Amtrak trains but as CNN notes, his vote to protect gun manufactures from liability is the most curious given that “he has voted to make it easier to sue airlines for crashes over water, machine tool makers for injuries that happen after 18 years of use and restaurants over mislabeled food that contributed to weight gain.”


“Instead of people yelling at each other, we have got to come together on common-sense approaches which, in fact, the vast majority of the American people support,” Sanders explained to Todd, adding that there is “widespread support to ban semi-automatic assault weapons, guns which have no other purpose but to kill people.”

Sanders voted against the Brady Handgun Violence Protection Act in 1993, a bill that established the current national background check system, before eventually backing the 2013 Manchin-Toomey bill closing the gun show loophole. He has also voted for a semi-automatic gun ban and a ban on high-capacity magazines.

Sanders, who now holds a D- rating from the NRA, has called himself “strong” on gun control issues in past interviews.

For her part, Clinton appears ready to set a contrast between her record on gun control and Sander’s in Las Vegas this week. Days after nine people were killed by a lone gunman in Oregon, Clinton touted new proposals for gun reform on the stump in Iowa, including a repeal of the Sanders backed congressionally mandated immunity from civil liability for the gun industry.

“This epidemic of gun violence knows no boundaries,” Clinton said as her campaign expressed a willingness to enact new gun control measures through executive action.
 
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By 2015-10-12 19:28:52
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By Bismarck.Dracondria 2015-10-12 19:45:19
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It's been what, 10 years? He's not allowed to change his mind?
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By Bloodrose 2015-10-12 19:50:18
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Politicians are only allowed to change their minds once, on any topic, within 20 years, lest they be called "flip flops"
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By Bahamut.Baconwrap 2015-10-12 20:15:23
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Bismarck.Dracondria said: »
It's been what, 10 years? He's not allowed to change his mind?

I think its not that he's changing his opinion, but rather the timing. It comes across as a bit staged and artificial.
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By Bahamut.Ravael 2015-10-12 20:49:16
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Bahamut.Baconwrap said: »
Bismarck.Dracondria said: »
It's been what, 10 years? He's not allowed to change his mind?

I think its not that he's changing his opinion, but rather the timing. It comes across as a bit staged and artificial.

Hmmm, yeah. I thought he had the edge on Clinton in the sincerity department, as she seemed to be the pandering one while he came across as genuine. Moves like this can ruin the very trait that has set him apart.
 
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By Bismarck.Dracondria 2015-10-12 21:00:21
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A mass shooting like the Oregon one can cause you to rethink your stance on an issue you haven't thought about in a while

Not saying that's the case (since he's a politician) but it's certainly possible.

I still prefer him to any other candidate I've seen since he actually wants to talk about his politics and not gossip about the other candidates (what's wrong with your 'news'?)
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By Bahamut.Ravael 2015-10-12 21:02:13
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Bismarck.Josiahfk said: »
Nothing wrong with changing your mind as the world changes, but if it's right before a debate it means you did it just for success, not on principle like you should have.

That typically is a dealbreaker for me. I know I should never expect politicians to not act like politicians, but if you're going to sell out for votes, at least try not to make it completely obvious. I'd still take Sanders over Clinton, but we'll see how he handles himself in the coming months.
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By Bahamut.Ravael 2015-10-12 21:05:18
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Bismarck.Dracondria said: »
A mass shooting like the Oregon one can cause you to rethink your stance on an issue you haven't thought about in a while

If it has taken someone this long to change their mind on the issue, they haven't been paying attention. Oregon wasn't our first rodeo. Actually, anyone who changes their mind on a subject based on how much media coverage it receives probably isn't thinking straight in the first place.
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By Bismarck.Dracondria 2015-10-12 21:06:43
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Or they've been busy with other things and haven't paid as much attention to it as they should have


Are we forgetting that politicians are humans? lol
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By Bahamut.Ravael 2015-10-12 21:12:15
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Bismarck.Dracondria said: »
Or they've been busy with other things and haven't paid as much attention to it as they should have


Are we forgetting that politicians are humans? lol

If a politician has been too busy to pay attention to how they feel about hot-button issues that constituents care about, I don't know if I trust them in office. Ones who are played like a fiddle by the media deserve my loathing even more. Screw the media, look at the facts.
 
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By Bahamut.Baconwrap 2015-10-12 21:32:15
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Bismarck.Dracondria said: »
Or they've been busy with other things and haven't paid as much attention to it as they should have


Are we forgetting that politicians are humans? lol

He's been criticized publicly by liberal outlets about his support of PLCAA and how it effected the families of Sandy Hook Elementary. Why is Oregon any different?
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By Ragnarok.Zeig 2015-10-13 12:59:26
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MH17 Ukraine disaster: Dutch Safety Board blames missile

BBC.com said:
Malaysian Airlines Flight MH17 crashed as a result of a Russian-made Buk missile, the Dutch Safety Board says.

The missile hit the front left of the plane causing other parts to break off, it said in a final report into the July 2014 disaster, which killed 298 people.

The West and Ukraine say Russian-backed rebels brought down the Boeing 777, but Russia blames Ukrainian forces.

The report does not say who fired the missile, but says airspace over eastern Ukraine should have been closed.

The plane - flying from Amsterdam to Kuala Lumpur - crashed at the height of the conflict between government troops and pro-Russian separatists.

Most of the victims were Dutch - 196, including some with dual nationality. The other passengers and crew were nationals from 10 countries.


A separate Dutch-led criminal investigation is under way. The report says the three crew members in the cockpit were killed by the missile explosion instantly. However, it adds, it was unclear at which point the others died, and the possibility of some remaining conscious for some time during the one-and-a-half minutes it took for the plane to go down could not be ruled out.


Presenting its findings at the Gilze-Rijen military base in the Netherlands, the safety board showed plane parts that had been brought back from the rebel-held Donetsk region and reconstructed. Board president Djibbe Joustra said the impact pattern could not have been caused by a meteor, an air-to-air missile or an internal explosion.

Instead, he said, a warhead carried by a surface-to-air missile had detonated above the left-hand side of the cockpit, causing structural damage.

Mr Joustra said the missile was a Buk - which experts say both Russian and Ukrainian armies possess.

He added that paint had been found on metal fragments within the plane that matched with missile fragments on the ground.
Mr Joustra also said there had been sufficient reason to close off Ukrainian airspace but Ukraine did not do that - and on the day of the crash, 160 flights flew over the area in question.

Source

EDIT: recommended that you check the source for the full article and all the related links if you're interested in the details of the investigation.
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By Jetackuu 2015-10-13 13:05:54
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Bahamut.Baconwrap said: »
Bismarck.Dracondria said: »
Or they've been busy with other things and haven't paid as much attention to it as they should have


Are we forgetting that politicians are humans? lol

He's been criticized publicly by liberal outlets about his support of PLCAA and how it effected the families of Sandy Hook Elementary. Why is Oregon any different?

It wouldn't have affected them anyway.
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By Garuda.Chanti 2015-10-13 14:15:22
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Carly Fiorina Failed At Hewlett-Packard In A Whole Other Way You Didn’t Even Know About
Wonkette, and fairly restrained for them.

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In what’s either an excellent bit of techbiz history or the strangest possible promotional tie-in to the new Steve Jobs movie, Stephen Levy at Medium brings us a fascinating backgrounder on yet another bit of Carly Fiorina brag, during the second GOP debate, that she couldn’t have been too terrible at Hewlett-Packard, since she got an encouraging phone call from Steve Jobs Himself:

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When you challenge the status quo, you make enemies. I made a few. Steve Jobs told me that when he called me the day I was fired to say, “Hey, been there, done that twice.”
Heck, that’s how the tech business goes. Sometimes you’re just too darn visionary for a mere corporate board, and they shitcan you because they aren’t visionaries like you.

Color Levy skeptical. Sure, Jobs called her to commiserate and say, “Yeah, I’ve been fired by dunderheads too, but that’s what happens to those of us who Think Different, right?” Except Carly Fiorina ain’t no Steve Jobs:

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Unlike Jobs, however, Fiorina did not go on to start a company, buy another small company and sell it for billions, or return to the place that fired her and restore it to glory. But the point of the story was that Steve was on her side, and by aligning herself with the sainted innovator, Fiorina racked up triple-bonus debate points.
But that’s not really the point, says Levy. The real point is that Steve Jobs could easily afford a kind word for Fiorina, since she’d very helpfully made him a lot of money in one of her many management debacles at HP: the sorry and forgettable “partnership” between HP and Apple that resulted in an abominable, largely forgotten technology footnote, the HP iPod. Levy knows a thing or two about that misbegotten artifact of the early Aughts, since he literally wrote the book on the iPod. Or at least, a book on it.

When the iPod was still so new and revolutionary that everyone was still gaga over it:

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[Jobs and Fiorina] made a deal where HP could slap its name on Apple’s wildly successful product. Nonetheless, HP still managed to botch things. It could not have been otherwise, really, because Steve Jobs totally outsmarted the woman who now claims she can run the United States of America.
No, kids, this piece is not going to be kind to Fiorina.

Under Fiorina’s direction, HP fudged almost everything it could in its iPod “partnership” with Apple, although the relationship sounds a bit more like the “partnership” of the USSR and its Cold War satellite states. Jobs pretty much dictated the terms under which HP would make and sell its version of the iPod, and he made sure that Apple had the better deal in every aspect of how it was rolled out. His biggest advantage was getting Fiorina to pre-install Apple’s iTunes music service on all its new computers:

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This was a hugely valuable concession. Apple had only recently begun to push this key software into the Windows world. Millions of HP/Compaq customers would instantly become part of Apple’s entertainment ecosystem.

If it were a straight deal for HP to include Apple’s software, the fee might have been hundreds of millions of dollars … Even better, preinstalling iTunes was a way for Apple to stifle Microsoft’s competitor to the iTunes Music Store. As an Apple leader at the time puts it, “This was a highly strategic move to block HP/Compaq from installing Windows Media Store on their PCs. We wanted iTunes Music store to be a definitive winner. Steve only did this deal because of that.”
Levy ventures that because HP was barely making a profit on each PC it sold, the deal almost certainly created more value for Apple than it did for HP. And then there was the HP iPod itself, which never really competed with the Apple version because shortly after HP got its version on the market, Apple came out with the next generation of its iPod, with more storage and better bells and whistles. This left the HP version perpetually behind:

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Fiorina apparently did not secure the right to sell the most current iPods in a timely fashion, and was able to deliver newer models only months after the Apple versions were widely available.
At its best, the HP version never made up more than 5 percent of iPods sold. It didn’t even do well in Iran! Jobs dictated even the tiniest detail of the HP version’s design: Although Fiorina proudly showed off a pretty blue HP iPod prototype, the Apple device came only in white, and darned if the actual production models from HP weren’t white, too.

Fiorina even screwed HP beyond the end of her tenure, since her agreement with Apple committed HP to not producing a competing music player until 2006 — well past her firing in February 2005. Even after her successor ended the iPod deal in July 2005, HP/Compaq computers came bundled with iTunes until January 2006, when HP made a deal to include the Rhapsody music service:

Quote:
Rhapsody Co-chair Rob Glaser, who had observed the drama from his Seattle base, now says, “Steve and Apple fleeced HP in that deal — HP’s version of the iPod was a failure, and Apple was able to grow the iPod.”
So Fiorina made a deal to sell an HP iPod that would always be obsolete compared to Apple’s and to install software that made Apple rich. Great negotiating, Donald Trump would be proud! Anything else?

Oh yes. Levy points out that when HP bought Compaq, it acquired Compaq’s many patents on digital music player technology that Fiorina could have leveraged to HP’s advantage in negotiating with Jobs, since “she could have credibly claimed that the iPod infringed on HP’s intellectual property” — if she’d had any idea that her company owned the patents. Nope. Levy sums up:
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In short, Fiorina’s “good friend” Steve Jobs blithely mugged her and HP’s shareholders. By getting Fiorina to adopt the iPod as HP’s music player, Jobs had effectively gotten his software installed on millions of computers for free, stifled his main competitor, and gotten a company that prided itself on invention to declare that Apple was a superior inventor. And he lost nothing, except the few minutes it took him to call Carly Fiorina and say he was sorry she got canned.
ep, that’s the brilliant business experience that Fiorina wants to bring to the Oval Office. As Levy says, it’s not an especially “encouraging precedent for a person who wants to deal with Vladimir Putin.”

Now we simply need to wait and see whether Donald Trump can find an old HP iPod on eBay before the next GOP debate. Might be fun for him to pull that from a jacket pocket and say, “Perhaps this will refresh your memory!”
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By Jetackuu 2015-10-13 14:19:51
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Jobs, innovative. That's a joke, right?
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By Ragnarok.Nausi 2015-10-13 14:27:31
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I'm sure Hilary would have been a much better choice for CEO at HP.
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By Garuda.Chanti 2015-10-13 18:35:55
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Ragnarok.Nausi said: »
I'm sure Hilary would have been a much better choice for CEO at HP.
Seeing as Carly lost over 56% of the stock value, laid off 30,000 American workers and outsourced their jobs, and according to the article above didn't get a red cent for installing iTunes on all HP products, any one of us here could be a better choice.
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By Bahamut.Baconwrap 2015-10-13 20:22:10
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This debate is great! Hillary and O'Malley just went after Bernie on gun policy.
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By Phoenix.Amandarius 2015-10-13 20:29:32
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Don't waste your time trying to dig up stuff on the candidates. Focus on Marco. Rubio is the guy.
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By Phoenix.Amandarius 2015-10-13 21:30:32
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It's a shame Jim Webb got so drowned out by all the other far left lunatics on stage. He is a very reasonable person that would get both sides working together again. He comes off as a very honest man of integrity.
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By Bahamut.Ravael 2015-10-13 22:24:11
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I wasn't able to watch the debate, but it appears that the major news websites are unanimous in their belief that both Clinton and Sanders came off looking better after the debate, with the others seen as losing it. Sanders had many more Google hits, though, which plays big for him as the underdog.
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By Phoenix.Amandarius 2015-10-13 22:37:44
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Bahamut.Ravael said: »
I wasn't able to watch the debate, but it appears that the major news websites are unanimous in their belief that both Clinton and Sanders came off looking better after the debate, with the others seen as losing it. Sanders had many more Google hits, though, which plays big for him as the underdog.

Anderson Cooper gave Hillary/Bernie probably 75% of the time. He kept Jim Webb out of most of it. It was pretty ridiculous.
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By Drama Torama 2015-10-13 22:41:55
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Bismarck.Dracondria said: »
A mass shooting like the Oregon one can cause you to rethink your stance on an issue you haven't thought about in a while

There's no delicate way to say this, but Oregon was pretty mild by "American mass shooting" standards.

I mean, if nothing changed after Sandy Hook, then nothing is changing ever. That was your moment to change sides, if you were going to do it, and if you didn't do it then, you're just pandering.

Garuda.Chanti said: »
Seeing as Carly lost over 56% of the stock value, lade off 30,000 American workers and outsourced their jobs, and according to the article above didn't get a red cent for installing iTunes on all HP products, any one of us here could be a better choice.

Fiorina playing up her exectuive experience always boggled the ***out of me. She was atrocious beyond belief in that job, and demolished the final remains of DEC's legacy. She is a villain.

Bahamut.Ravael said: »
Sanders had many more Google hits, though, which plays big for him as the underdog.

I guess he is still technically the underdog, but sure doesn't feel that way.
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By Bahamut.Ravael 2015-10-13 23:10:04
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I hadn't looked at the RCP polls in a while, but some of them are rather interesting now. Bush, Rubio, Carson, and Fiorina are doing much better in the head-to-head polls against Clinton and Sanders now, beating them in many cases. On the other hand, Biden crushes all of them and he isn't even running. The Dems need to get their heads out of Hillary's butt and start looking to the Veep before it's too late.

Note: Yes, I know polls aren't perfect and are sometimes worthless at this stage of the game, so there's no reason to point out the obvious.
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By Bahamut.Baconwrap 2015-10-14 00:18:11
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Bahamut.Ravael said: »
I wasn't able to watch the debate, but it appears that the major news websites are unanimous in their belief that both Clinton and Sanders came off looking better after the debate, with the others seen as losing it. Sanders had many more Google hits, though, which plays big for him as the underdog.

O'Malley helped Clinton immensely in two attacks against Sanders. They attacked him against his gun control policies as well as his electibility as a socialists.

Best line of the night: "WE ARE NOT DENMARK"
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