Random Politics & Religion #00

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Random Politics & Religion #00
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 Ragnarok.Nausi
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By Ragnarok.Nausi 2015-10-09 09:48:31
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Hillary Clinton knows what Democrats want from their next president: someone who uses the bulked-up power of the presidency to drive a progressive agenda.

Liberals do love that tyranny.
 Garuda.Chanti
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By Garuda.Chanti 2015-10-09 10:18:51
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Asura.Kingnobody said: »
Hey, it's not my fault you have your head stuck in the sand to believe that the democrats/liberals are just as guilty to listen to special interest groups who also donate to their campaign funds.

Hell, even corporations donate to liberals/democrats. In the case of Clinton, even foreign governments donate to her campaign fund foundation who also donates to her campaign fund.
Lets see if I understand you.

You are saying that the Democrats are LESS beholded to special interest groups than the Republicans?

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By Jetackuu 2015-10-09 14:18:10
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http://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2015/10/california-governor-signs-new-law-mandating-warrant-for-stingray-use/

Quote:
On Thursday, California Governor Jerry Brown signed a bill into law that requires police get a warrant to use a stingray during investigations. The devices, which are also known as cell-site simulators, are usually used to locate a phone but can also in some cases intercept calls and text messages.

The law, known as the California Electronic Communications Privacy Act, imposes other sweeping new requirements to enhance digital privacy, and imposes a warrant requirement before police can access nearly any type of digital data produced by or contained within a device or service.

"Governor Brown just signed a law that says ‘no’ to warrantless government snooping in our digital information. This is a landmark win for digital privacy and all Californians," Nicole Ozer, a lawyer with the American Civil Liberties Union of California ACLU, said in a statement. "We hope this is a model for the rest of the nation in protecting our digital privacy rights."

The ACLU of California was one of the organizations, in addition to tech companies including Google, Airbnb, Apple, Facebook, that co-sponsored the bill.

Notably, the law specifically says that the government is forbidden from "accessing electronic device information by means of physical interaction or electronic communication with the device," barring a short list of exceptions.

California is by no means the first state to impose such a requirement, but as the most populous state it the union, it will surely have an outsized effect. Others states that already have similar laws include Washington, Virginia, Minnesota, and Utah.

Ars contacted several law enforcement agencies across the Golden State to see how this would change their policies, but has not immediately heard back.

Brian Owsley, a law professor at the University of North Texas, and a former federal judge, lauded the new law's wide berth.

"This legislation provides citizens and non-citizens alike when in California greater protections than they enjoy at the federal or in most other states," he told Ars by e-mail.

"My initial read of the statute is such that it has a broad scope of coverage, which is beneficial in that it does not apply to specific technologies. In the future, as technological developments happen, the statute will have some flexibility in changing with the times. This obviates the need to come back next year and amend the statute, which may or may not be as politically feasible regarding a specific new technology."
No more pen registers

Further Reading
Cops must now get a warrant to use stingrays in Washington state

New statute also forces police to more fully explain cell-site simulators to judges.
Prior to Thursday, California law enforcement would typically use a stingray using the legal authority of a "pen register and trap and trace order," a pre-cellphone-era order that let cops obtain someone's calling metadata in near real-time from the telephone company.

Now, that same data can also be gathered directly by the cops themselves over the air through the use of a stingray. In some cases, police have gone to judges asking for such a device or have falsely claimed the existence of a confidential informant while in fact deploying this particularly sweeping and intrusive surveillance tool.

Most judges are likely to sign off on a pen register application not fully understanding that police are actually asking for permission to use a stingray. Under federal law, pen registers are granted under a very low standard: authorities must simply show that the information obtained from the pen register is "relevant to an ongoing criminal investigation."

That is a far lower standard than being forced to show probable cause for a search warrant or wiretap order. A wiretap requires law enforcement to not only specifically describe the alleged crimes but also to demonstrate that all other means of investigation had been exhausted or would fail if they were attempted.

California doesn’t actually have a specific pen register statute—a pen/trap application template that Ars obtained from the Oakland Police Department under a public records request cites the federal statute. However, that practice goes against a 2003 opinion from the California Attorney General. The AG concluded that because California affords its citizens more privacy under the state constitution than does federal law, a state law enforcement officer cannot use a federal statute for a pen/trap order.

The law’s authors were understandably thrilled.

"For too long, California’s digital privacy laws have been stuck in the Dark Ages, leaving our personal emails, text messages, photos and smartphones increasingly vulnerable to warrantless searches," Senator Mark Leno (D-San Francisco), a state legislator, said in a statement.

"Senator Leno and I helped bridge the gap between progressives and conservatives to make the privacy of Californians a top priority this year," Sen. Joel Anderson (R-San Diego County) added in the same statement. "This bipartisan bill protects Californians’ basic civil liberties as the Fourth Amendment and the California Constitution intended."
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By Jassik 2015-10-09 14:22:58
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I seriously can't believe they aren't covered by current wire-tapping laws, but good on CA.
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By Aeyela 2015-10-09 14:28:27
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US Republican presidential hopeful Ben Carson has defended comments that suggested the Holocaust may have been avoided if people had been armed.

"The likelihood of Hitler being able to accomplish his goals would have been greatly diminished if the people had been armed," he told CNN on Thursday.

Is being an enormous and bigoted douche one of the requirements for being the Republican candidate or something? Or is he just trying to be seen over the steaming ***that pours from Trump's mouth on a regular basis?
 Ragnarok.Nausi
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By Ragnarok.Nausi 2015-10-09 14:31:01
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Aeyela said: »
Quote:
US Republican presidential hopeful Ben Carson has defended comments that suggested the Holocaust may have been avoided if people had been armed.

"The likelihood of Hitler being able to accomplish his goals would have been greatly diminished if the people had been armed," he told CNN on Thursday.

Is being an enormous and bigoted douche one of the requirements for being the Republican candidate or something? Or is he just trying to be seen over the steaming ***that pours from Trump's mouth on a regular basis?

Does something elude you? His point, as well as your reaction to it have enormous historical relevance.
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By Jassik 2015-10-09 14:32:24
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Aeyela said: »
Quote:
US Republican presidential hopeful Ben Carson has defended comments that suggested the Holocaust may have been avoided if people had been armed.

"The likelihood of Hitler being able to accomplish his goals would have been greatly diminished if the people had been armed," he told CNN on Thursday.

Is being an enormous and bigoted douche one of the requirements for being the Republican candidate or something? Or is he just trying to be seen over the steaming ***that pours from Trump's mouth on a regular basis?

He opposes abortion despite having benefited from and even championing the medical advances from fetal tissue research. This is just another example of what could have been a promising intelligent Republican candidate being reduced to a pile of crap trying not to offend the extreme elements of his party.
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By Aeyela 2015-10-09 14:34:09
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Ragnarok.Nausi said: »
Does something elude you? His point, as well as your reaction to it have enormous historical relevance.

Warsaw was armed. How'd that work out for them?
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By Jassik 2015-10-09 14:36:04
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People just don't have a clue how pathetic a resistance a bunch of scattered untrained citizens are against an organized and trained army. They all think they'll be like Rambo.
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By Siren.Mosin 2015-10-09 14:45:48
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Jassik said: »
People just don't have a clue how pathetic a resistance a bunch of scattered untrained citizens are against an organized and trained army.

they sure gave our boys a hell of a time for the last 10 years.
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By Jassik 2015-10-09 14:49:13
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Siren.Mosin said: »
Jassik said: »
People just don't have a clue how pathetic a resistance a bunch of scattered untrained citizens are against an organized and trained army.

they sure gave our boys a hell of a time for the last 10 years.

Only because we play by the rules (mostly). The blitzkreig was characterized by scorched earth tactics.
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By Aeyela 2015-10-09 14:49:54
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Jassik said: »
People just don't have a clue how pathetic a resistance a bunch of scattered untrained citizens are against an organized and trained army. They all think they'll be like Rambo.

It's the incredibly naive assessment that it's as easy as grabbing a gun and shooting your way to freedom that I find to be the worst thing. Trump's said something similar, albeit not quite so vitriolic, about Syrian refugees. It's a sickening attitude for any potential President of the United States of America to have and the overwhelmingly concerning thing is people lap it up like it's a good attitude. If that's their solution, they shouldn't be anywhere near The White House.

In the case of my example they made large gains from the Nazis. Ultimately they failed due to attrition and lack of assistance from the Soviets and the Allies.
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By Siren.Mosin 2015-10-09 14:51:57
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Jassik said: »
Only because we play by the rules (mostly). The blitzkreig was characterized by scorched earth tactics.

I wasn't trying to aid nausi & ben carson's goofy assertion, just qualifying your blanket statement.
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By Jassik 2015-10-09 14:53:18
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Siren.Mosin said: »
Jassik said: »
Only because we play by the rules (mostly). The blitzkreig was characterized by scorched earth tactics.

I wasn't trying to aid nausi & ben carson's goofy assertion, just qualifying your blanket statement.

No, that's a good point. But, the insurgents and now ISIS are far more organized and playing by a completely different rule book.
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By Aeyela 2015-10-09 14:54:05
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Siren.Mosin said: »
they sure gave our boys a hell of a time for the last 10 years.

That's because it suits our media's representations of the Taliban & IS to imply they're heavily inefficient and untrained - this was not and is not the case.
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 Siren.Mosin
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By Siren.Mosin 2015-10-09 15:00:31
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Aeyela said: »
That's because it suits our media's representations of the Taliban & IS to imply they're heavily inefficient and untrained - this was not and is not the case.

anyone with two brain cells to rub together knows that, hell we trained the taliban. It doesn't negate the fact that guerrilla warfare can be highly effective under the right circumstances.
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By Aeyela 2015-10-09 15:03:22
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Siren.Mosin said: »
anyone with two brain cells to rub together knows that, hell we trained the taliban. It doesn't negate the fact that guerrilla warfare can be highly effective under the right circumstances.

You implied that yourself by replying to Jassik with what I quoted.
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By Jassik 2015-10-09 15:05:35
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Siren.Mosin said: »
Aeyela said: »
That's because it suits our media's representations of the Taliban & IS to imply they're heavily inefficient and untrained - this was not and is not the case.

anyone with two brain cells to rub together knows that, hell we trained the taliban. It doesn't negate the fact that guerrilla warfare can be highly effective under the right circumstances.

It works really well in context, most definitely. Look at how effective it was for us in the 1780's. It's just not the norm and obviously does not apply to a bunch of chili-dog eaters with small arms and no training or central organization.
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 Ragnarok.Nausi
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By Ragnarok.Nausi 2015-10-09 15:17:58
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Aeyela said: »
Ragnarok.Nausi said: »
Does something elude you? His point, as well as your reaction to it have enormous historical relevance.

Warsaw was armed. How'd that work out for them?

Oh right, there was no good reason that Hitler took the guns BEFORE he started his genocide.
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By Jassik 2015-10-09 15:19:36
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Ragnarok.Nausi said: »
Aeyela said: »
Ragnarok.Nausi said: »
Does something elude you? His point, as well as your reaction to it have enormous historical relevance.

Warsaw was armed. How'd that work out for them?

Oh right, there was no good reason that Hitler took the guns BEFORE he started his genocide.

Within Germany, Warsaw is in Poland, bro.
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 Ragnarok.Nausi
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By Ragnarok.Nausi 2015-10-09 15:23:11
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Jassik said: »
Siren.Mosin said: »
Jassik said: »
Only because we play by the rules (mostly). The blitzkreig was characterized by scorched earth tactics.

I wasn't trying to aid nausi & ben carson's goofy assertion, just qualifying your blanket statement.

No, that's a good point. But, the insurgents and now ISIS are far more organized and playing by a completely different rule book.

Idiocy compiles idiocy. I am stunned sometimes at how hard you miss the point.

If the Jews had weapons they could have more easily become their own organized resistance.
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By Aeyela 2015-10-09 15:24:56
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Ragnarok.Nausi said: »
Aeyela said: »
Ragnarok.Nausi said: »
Does something elude you? His point, as well as your reaction to it have enormous historical relevance.

Warsaw was armed. How'd that work out for them?

Oh right, there was no good reason that Hitler took the guns BEFORE he started his genocide.

No, I am not referring to the holocaust victims. In 1944 Warsaw rebelled against the Nazi conquerors and fought and gained large swathes of Warsaw before ultimately being defeated over sixty days later. The Nazis then razed Warsaw to the ground and completely obliterated the city.

Not only that, but almost all personnel who took part were brutally and systematically executed after being promised safe surrender. It was the largest (by a long way) rebellion against the Axis during World War 2.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Warsaw_Uprising

And a reconstruction of the aftermath using historical photographs and data:

YouTube Video Placeholder


Look how that rebellion in Syria is going, too. They look pretty well armed to me. It's just willful ignorance and baseless defense of "MUH GUNS" to say that a gun means freedom.
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By Jassik 2015-10-09 15:24:58
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Ragnarok.Nausi said: »
Jassik said: »
Siren.Mosin said: »
Jassik said: »
Only because we play by the rules (mostly). The blitzkreig was characterized by scorched earth tactics.

I wasn't trying to aid nausi & ben carson's goofy assertion, just qualifying your blanket statement.

No, that's a good point. But, the insurgents and now ISIS are far more organized and playing by a completely different rule book.

Idiocy compiles idiocy. I am stunned sometimes at how hard you miss the point.

If the Jews had weapons they could have more easily become their own organized resistance.

If the army showed up at your door at 3AM and broke down your door and took your entire army to a concentration camp, at what point in that process would you have the ability to form an organized and armed resistance?
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 Ragnarok.Nausi
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By Ragnarok.Nausi 2015-10-09 15:27:28
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Jassik said: »
Ragnarok.Nausi said: »
Aeyela said: »
Ragnarok.Nausi said: »
Does something elude you? His point, as well as your reaction to it have enormous historical relevance.

Warsaw was armed. How'd that work out for them?

Oh right, there was no good reason that Hitler took the guns BEFORE he started his genocide.

Within Germany, Warsaw is in Poland, bro.

What is the ultimate point here? Guns are ineffective as a deterrent of force?
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By Jassik 2015-10-09 15:28:51
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Ragnarok.Nausi said: »
Jassik said: »
Ragnarok.Nausi said: »
Aeyela said: »
Ragnarok.Nausi said: »
Does something elude you? His point, as well as your reaction to it have enormous historical relevance.

Warsaw was armed. How'd that work out for them?

Oh right, there was no good reason that Hitler took the guns BEFORE he started his genocide.

Within Germany, Warsaw is in Poland, bro.

What is the ultimate point here? Guns are ineffective as a deterrent of force?

You overestimate their efficacy in those scenarios, that's the point.
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 Ragnarok.Nausi
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By Ragnarok.Nausi 2015-10-09 15:28:59
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Jassik said: »
Ragnarok.Nausi said: »
Jassik said: »
Siren.Mosin said: »
Jassik said: »
Only because we play by the rules (mostly). The blitzkreig was characterized by scorched earth tactics.

I wasn't trying to aid nausi & ben carson's goofy assertion, just qualifying your blanket statement.

No, that's a good point. But, the insurgents and now ISIS are far more organized and playing by a completely different rule book.

Idiocy compiles idiocy. I am stunned sometimes at how hard you miss the point.

If the Jews had weapons they could have more easily become their own organized resistance.

If the army showed up at your door at 3AM and broke down your door and took your entire army to a concentration camp, at what point in that process would you have the ability to form an organized and armed resistance?
Well, how many citizens left are armed?
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By Aeyela 2015-10-09 15:29:01
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Ragnarok.Nausi said: »
What is the ultimate point here? Guns are ineffective as a deterrent of force?

Honestly? That you persist on arguing over topics or historical events you know absolutely *** all about.
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 Siren.Mosin
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By Siren.Mosin 2015-10-09 15:30:39
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Aeyela said: »
You implied that yourself by replying to Jassik with what I quoted.

I guess I was speaking more to the armed quotient of the equation rather than the trained part, I should've been more clear.
 Ragnarok.Nausi
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By Ragnarok.Nausi 2015-10-09 15:33:17
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Jassik said: »
Ragnarok.Nausi said: »
Jassik said: »
Ragnarok.Nausi said: »
Aeyela said: »
Ragnarok.Nausi said: »
Does something elude you? His point, as well as your reaction to it have enormous historical relevance.

Warsaw was armed. How'd that work out for them?

Oh right, there was no good reason that Hitler took the guns BEFORE he started his genocide.

Within Germany, Warsaw is in Poland, bro.

What is the ultimate point here? Guns are ineffective as a deterrent of force?

You overestimate their efficacy in those scenarios, that's the point.

No, you underestimate them. It's more progressive anti gun vomit. Would you rather take your 1 million man army and invade the a nation where 20% of the 300 million people (60 million) own guns, or would you rather invade the country where only 2% of that 300 million (6 million) own guns.

Why?
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By Siren.Mosin 2015-10-09 15:33:20
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Jassik said: »
You overestimate their efficacy in those scenarios, that's the point.

yep. explosives would be far more useful than small arms.
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