First Time Stunning, Tojil Was Terrible.

 
 
 
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First time stunning, tojil was terrible.
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By Boscage 2013-12-21 17:05:41
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So last night I set up a run with my LS and pickups for T1-5 + Tojil. My friend Suffdogg and I stunning. Before we entered I told everyone that it was my first time so it may not go so well. But I know the only way to get better is practice. So we went on 3 runs. First run, all 5 NMs went pretty good. Pieste spammed to\p moves which kinda sucked but I stunned most things. Suffdogg has been stunning since delve began so he is pro an doesn't really miss. But when we got to Tojil, first off I was nervous and didn't wanna screw up the run. But also I couldn't see at points. I was animation stunning, and I'm on Xbox so no help from windowed or anything. I know to stun when he squats like he's about to take a crap and the tp animation shows but the problem (other than being nervous) was that everytime a skill chain animation went off, I couldn't see anything. No matter where I stood it blocked my vision and the red geo bubble didn't help either. But I missed 3 lahars and of course a few people talked smack about it. But I said it was my first time. I already knew it wouldn't go too well but it was better than I thought. The 2 times following that run went better. Only missed one lahar both times. Still not good, I know. But better than the first one. I don't want to get on people's bad list and have them not take me on SCH anymore. But I can't help that I sucked my first time. Gear is all good. Skill is capped. But like I've seen others say, it's 95%skill/reaction 5% gear. My reaction time seemed good too for the most part. But any advice for people not having on me for my first few times and for seeing the NMs and mega bosses better? Thank you.
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By Pantafernando 2013-12-21 17:13:51
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Windower/battlemod is a bliss.
Aside that, use better your chat filter and effects.
I think its impossible to filter even tp move reading like pet dragon, but seems ages since i last saw a geo buble. It can be avoided with normal game options.
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By Pantafernando 2013-12-21 17:18:05
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Also, stunning isnt that much reflex. Reflex is when you do a move even if you wasnt expecting.
Mega boss are very predictable in thier timing of reading/casting. Once you stun a few, you will feel the most likely moment when you should stun. Normally, when you are almost sure when the move will be used, your reactions are better than just waiting he to change his animation. But without windower/battlemod, animation stun all the time. Native chat log is full of lags.
 Quetzalcoatl.Kenrusai
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By Quetzalcoatl.Kenrusai 2013-12-21 17:22:01
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Basically, what he is saying and what we're all thinking is suckless.
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 Shiva.Devrom
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By Shiva.Devrom 2013-12-21 17:59:08
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I would suggest you to turn off all effects and turn on all your filters except "special actions started on/by foes". That should filter out SC and geo effects which you seem to worry about for the most part and maybe let you rely on chat log rather than animation unless you have some lag (/doubt).

edit: You can also let your friend focus on lahar. It can still use it back to back but this approach may save you some headache. And never forget that "***happens". If your ls goes mad at you for missing a lahar then it isn't the place for you anyway and just ignore the ***talking in pickups.
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 Ragnarok.Hevans
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By Ragnarok.Hevans 2013-12-21 18:07:12
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practice makes perfect.
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By Spiraboo 2013-12-21 18:34:19
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filter animations, turn everything off apart from yourself and the boss, that works wonders if you're trigger happy on people's SC etc.

You have the right idea with the squat thing. Peiste also kind of curls up when he does a TP move so you could watch for that. (I usually look at its neck)

Practice makes perfect as Hevans says. It took me about 3-4 runs before i was competent. Don't worry about it too much (though you do need thick skin and might want to host runs with friends so you don't ruin your reputation. lol)
 Phoenix.Amandarius
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By Phoenix.Amandarius 2013-12-21 18:35:34
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Battlemod is ftw to give you super tight chat filters. I make it so the enemy TP moves show up in bright red and its a whole lot easier to not miss anything. I filter everything else out.

Zone boss moves are almost like clockwork. Pretty much around every 8-9 seconds you can count on stunning.
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By itchi508 2013-12-21 19:07:53
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Stunning w/o being on PC is a challenge to begin with, the delay a console holds is already a second behind PC let alone using programs to help. Only way to stun efficiently on console is to set up your fights to allow you to find a comfort zone, somewhere away from your team, away from mobs & in a clear view of Nm. Lag=fail. Even doing say kurma/tut, console stunner should stand in a open room wile the party is in the hall. Have pld clear the room and get them out & away from you. Also best thing for tut/kurma is to 1st person view, face a wall so no animations from party/enemy's cause lag. Camp stun and don't blink lol.
For Tojil fight in main room, get away from your party and you can animation stun or if you no Tojil well enough you no what to expect and can stun /ja or detrimental things like Meteor, Diaga, Breakga etc. It is a challenge but it can be done on console. Just remember your human, you are bound to make a mistake and will never be perfect 100% of the time. PC users even make mistakes, they are just less prone to. Keep trying and find your comfort zone, good luck!
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By fonewear 2013-12-21 19:09:40
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Boscage said: »
So last night I set up a run with my LS and pickups for T1-5 + Tojil. My friend Suffdogg and I stunning. Before we entered I told everyone that it was my first time so it may not go so well. But I know the only way to get better is practice. So we went on 3 runs. First run, all 5 NMs went pretty good. Pieste spammed to\p moves which kinda sucked but I stunned most things. Suffdogg has been stunning since delve began so he is pro an doesn't really miss. But when we got to Tojil, first off I was nervous and didn't wanna screw up the run. But also I couldn't see at points. I was animation stunning, and I'm on Xbox so no help from windowed or anything. I know to stun when he squats like he's about to take a crap and the tp animation shows but the problem (other than being nervous) was that everytime a skill chain animation went off, I couldn't see anything. No matter where I stood it blocked my vision and the red geo bubble didn't help either. But I missed 3 lahars and of course a few people talked smack about it. But I said it was my first time. I already knew it wouldn't go too well but it was better than I thought. The 2 times following that run went better. Only missed one lahar both times. Still not good, I know. But better than the first one. I don't want to get on people's bad list and have them not take me on SCH anymore. But I can't help that I sucked my first time. Gear is all good. Skill is capped. But like I've seen others say, it's 95%skill/reaction 5% gear. My reaction time seemed good too for the most part. But any advice for people not having on me for my first few times and for seeing the NMs and mega bosses better? Thank you.

To answer your question yes.
 Ragnarok.Afania
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By Ragnarok.Afania 2013-12-21 19:32:36
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Quetzalcoatl.Kenrusai said: »
Basically, what he is saying and what we're all thinking is suckless.


He's asking a legit question to improve though, just that is 20 times more constructive than pop on a forum and reply suckless :D
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 Bismarck.Ihina
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By Bismarck.Ihina 2013-12-21 20:10:12
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'just that is 20 times more constructive than pop on a forum and reply suckless'

What does that mean, exactly?
 Quetzalcoatl.Taberifx
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By Quetzalcoatl.Taberifx 2013-12-21 21:08:35
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Watch Tojil, his usual animation routine is:
Normal Attack>TP move>Normal Attack>Tp move


Normal attack(horn thrusting or spin around)
TPmove(squat)
So pretty much after you see him thrust or spin around be ready to stun ^-^ his TP move is very slow

skip to :55 in video to see example
YouTube Video Placeholder



Good Luck!
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By Boscage 2013-12-21 21:45:39
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Thank you all for he help! Except ken. Lol. But I did notice that tojil would either head butt or spin before a move. But I was nervous, I was in a chat party with Suffdogg and he said, "I'm gonna impact, you get next stun" and about a second after he said "stun" I hit the macro. Lol. But after the first time I got alittle more comfortable. I'm used to whm, mnk, brd, and blu in delve. Lol. But thank you all for the help and the video! ^^ And hey Afania, thank you for those bee wins a few weeks ago! xD
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By Boscage 2013-12-21 21:48:41
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Also, a lot of times when I hit my stun macro it would have a second delay or so before I started casting. Should I just use the menu stun instead of the macro? I have /ma "Stun" <t> on the first line then the stun just used it stuff on the second.
 Quetzalcoatl.Kenrusai
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By Quetzalcoatl.Kenrusai 2013-12-21 21:51:10
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ϋ
 Odin.Quixacotl
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By Odin.Quixacotl 2013-12-21 23:35:20
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I've never stunned from the menu because our group requires tells so I only use my stun macro. In laggy areas you'll find a noticeable and lengthy delay from the time you hit your Ctrl button until your macro palette pops up. And if you hit your macro before the palette pops up then you're shooting blanks. I alleviate this by holding down the Ctrl button when it's my turn so that I'm ready to hit Stun.

Scholar stunning can be stressful and for good reason. Every stun must count and one missed Lahar can make the difference between success and failure (especially with pickups in the group). After a run you're either a hero or that nights' whipping boy.

Don't let your first loss discourage you. It takes time and experience to develop a knack for stunning the right moves at the right time. I can safely say that anyone who says they have never missed a stun is full of baloney.

Do some homework and find out each NMs' moves. When your group is doing the sub NMs then use those as a warm-up for the big one. Learn how to stun the right moves and, at the same time, bypass the weaker ones. Selective stunning, a sharp eye and reflex is what it's all about. That said, don't psyche yourself into over-anticipation. Patience is a factor too.

My first time as Sch I was sweating bullets. I was so determined to stun every move that I was stunning EVERYTHING when I shouldn't have. I even tossed stuns for no other reason than an itchy trigger finger or because my co-stunner casted Thunderstorm. Before I knew it we hit the stun wall too soon and wiped horribly.

Nowadays I'm like, "Eh... it's only Holy I'll let that one go.", "Ooh Lahar... Booya! Take that."
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 Asura.Squishytaru
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By Asura.Squishytaru 2013-12-21 23:47:09
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Ragnarok.Hevans said: »
third party tools practice makes perfect.

FTFY.
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By Pantafernando 2013-12-22 01:22:48
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Boscage said: »
Also, a lot of times when I hit my stun macro it would have a second delay or so before I started casting. Should I just use the menu stun instead of the macro? I have /ma "Stun" <t> on the first line then the stun just used it stuff on the second.

That lag is pretty common in xbox.
But i think thats is just animation lag. Your command should be sent in time, just that there is 10000x ws animation to process before the stun animation itself. Its pretty funny, sometimes you get the message that the nm was defeated, people start loting and when you head out, someone is still doing ws animation.
About macro, the first line have priority to second, so that mean there is a very small delay between both. If its relevant, idk.
About stun by menu, personally i dont use because i have some issues. One is that sometimes my menu abrupt close, second its a 3 times option till the stun. (Open menu > magic > stun > confirm stun), so it takes sometime till get ready, and if you need to recast klimaform+thunderstorm, you will end losing a stun.
About the situations where you need to cover the other, in that moment, if its the first time stunning with him, just use an option of stun without tell and solo stun till he say hes ready. With alacrity, even solo you wont lose the tp move, and even if you 2 have zero coordination, the worst that will happen is to double stun a move. You must consider also sometimes your partner can be a lot confusing, so you must know how to play safe.
And finally the embrava time. That can be worse than impact because require you to switch to light arts, need to hit at least 3jas, then need to repeat again or twice, then switch to dark art, stun, then near 3mins of sp, repeat all that again. If you are covering, just stun with alacrity up, and that mean you must have them saved. If you dont have stratagems, tell your partner you cant cover. Its best not to use something than just doing letting you stun partner to fry with 10+ secs recast and moves at 8 secs. If youre the one embraving, dont be lazy and switch to dark arts to stun with tabula. With tabula, tell your partner that you will solo stun, and just do it. Ive seen partners who want to take turns while under tabula. Thats a total waste of stratagems.
Embrava is a pain because requires coordination what lack at pugs, and i have my doubts about its real effect. Embrava is haste, regen, refresh. But suposing your dds are under 2x marches and haste, youre risking your run to give refresh and regen to dds. But what we can do? If leader feel better this way, just will require some preparation to do that.
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By Blazeoffury 2013-12-22 02:20:02
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Just have a brd and be hasted. . . Don't have to use Alacrity ever on a boss. Embrava is not a problem when you both have a 7 second recast without using any JA.
 Ragnarok.Afania
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By Ragnarok.Afania 2013-12-22 03:04:09
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Bismarck.Ihina said: »
'just that is 20 times more constructive than pop on a forum and reply suckless'

What does that mean, exactly?


1. Replying suckless doesn't help him stun better.

2. Replying suckless will discourage ppl ask questions on the forum.

3. So you will see ppl who can't stun/heal/DD/play FFXI stop asking questions on the forum because they don't want to hear suckless reply.

4. More ppl in FFXI can't stun/heal/DD/play FFXI because they can't improve, and too afraid to ask questions, more delve PUG fails and so on.

5. World ends ϋ

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 Leviathan.Comeatmebro
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By Leviathan.Comeatmebro 2013-12-22 03:28:09
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For what it's worth, on Leviathan, I've had an extreme amount of ghost TP since the update. Lost 3 consecutive tojils after a winning streak of over 30, because over a third of the tp weren't loading. This was at like 2-4:30 AM JST, so not even during a particularly active time.

I'm not sure if other servers are having similar trouble, but it turned me off from delve entirely for the time being.
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 Ramuh.Kailana
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By Ramuh.Kailana 2013-12-22 08:02:32
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Ragnarok.Afania said: »
Bismarck.Ihina said: »
'just that is 20 times more constructive than pop on a forum and reply suckless'

What does that mean, exactly?


1. Replying suckless doesn't help him stun better.

2. Replying suckless will discourage ppl ask questions on the forum.

3. So you will see ppl who can't stun/heal/DD/play FFXI stop asking questions on the forum because they don't want to hear suckless reply.

4. More ppl in FFXI can't stun/heal/DD/play FFXI because they can't improve, and too afraid to ask questions, more delve PUG fails and so on.

5. World ends ϋ


I don't know why this was even a question. I don't post as much as I used to, but I still read lots of threads, and every thread I've ever seen this guy post in has been straight up hateful. I'm sure some would call it trolling, but largely just comes across as being a douchebag for the sake of being a douchebag.

Dunno what the actual player/person is like, could be the nicest guy in the world IRL. I don't know. All I know is what I see and from what I see he's nothing short of an *jerkface*

edit: language, prepping for medical procedure tomorrow and the medicine and stress has me quite cranky. Please excuse any bitchface in the post above.
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By Mithradee 2014-01-09 08:41:21
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Thanks for the stunning info. I have stunned in the past and solo stunned high end stuff, just have not played scholar much since 75 cap. Other then 500 enhancing NNI Bi***... I was also wondering when doing scholar team stunning what kind of stuff do you do in between your stuns. Cure is a given but do you play with offensive spells other then maybe impact? And when curing do you take the time to switch out of dark arts or is it just a huge waste/risk verse eating the extra second or two cast time? In my old playing days of scholar I would just stick it out if one spell here or there but things might of changed and expectations higher. Any info is appreciated.

Did not want to make another thread so figure this one was good enough to use for my bidness.
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By Spiraboo 2014-01-09 08:54:47
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Mithradee said: »
Thanks for the stunning info. I have stunned in the past and solo stunned high end stuff, just have not played scholar much since 75 cap. Other then 500 enhancing NNI Bi***... I was also wondering when doing scholar team stunning what kind of stuff do you do in between your stuns. Cure is a given but do you play with offensive spells other then maybe impact? And when curing do you take the time to switch out of dark arts or is it just a huge waste/risk verse eating the extra second or two cast time? In my old playing days of scholar I would just stick it out if one spell here or there but things might of changed and expectations higher. Any info is appreciated.

Did not want to make another thread so figure this one was good enough to use for my bidness.

Errr I don't really cure, if you do it's definitely not worth switching out of dark arts for. You shouldn't really need to cure unless your group's supports are doing terribly, because you have dedicated whms to do the job. There's also typically a bard and a cor in each pt who are just really twiddling their thumbs in between their rolls/songs. The only person who may need some attention is your inside geo, but i'd argue your dedicated bard would be free enough to help him.

It depends what mob you're fighting. for e.g. I nuke in between my stuns when i'm facing Tojil. This helps bringing him down faster, esp during 100-75% when he's weak to magic. Kurma's another one that's good to nuke.

Impact is more of a start-of-fight thing, of course you may wish to reapply it mid fight, but you may need some coordination with your partner or it may take too long to cast and miss your next stun, esp on TP spammy nms.

Other obvious things would be to reapply your thunderstorm/kilmaform/popping sublimation where necessary. Aspir is a very good one too on some mobs.

Most of the time i spend my down time yelling at my bard for haste/marches... ._.")
 Cerberus.Rizla
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By Cerberus.Rizla 2014-01-09 08:59:26
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Leviathan.Comeatmebro said: »
For what it's worth, on Leviathan, I've had an extreme amount of ghost TP since the update. Lost 3 consecutive tojils after a winning streak of over 30, because over a third of the tp weren't loading. This was at like 2-4:30 AM JST, so not even during a particularly active time.

I'm not sure if other servers are having similar trouble, but it turned me off from delve entirely for the time being.


My group gets this sometimes a week in legion, and its extremely annoying, any idea what causes it.
 Leviathan.Comeatmebro
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By Leviathan.Comeatmebro 2014-01-09 09:44:39
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Cerberus.Rizla said: »
My group gets this sometimes a week in legion, and its extremely annoying, any idea what causes it.

All of the instanced areas(legion/assault/salvage/meebles/skirmish1&2/delve.. not sure if i'm missing any, dyna and bcs aren't truly instanced) share some form of resource(without information from SE, can't get much more specific). When they're busy, the server gets choked and TP don't load. There's no solution to it, it's just SE refusing to upgrade either the machine itself or their code.

Each instance takes a rather large amount of resources, so the more people soloing salvage/assault/etc.. the more likely you are to have issues. The only way to avoid the issue is to do delve/legion during less busy times.