The Parthenon: A Warrior's Kyklos

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The Parthenon: A Warrior's Kyklos
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 Asura.Azagarth
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By Asura.Azagarth 2017-06-23 14:45:16
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he wont but a wall-o-***now will come lol.
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 Asura.Saevel
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By Asura.Saevel 2017-06-23 14:45:37
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Ragnarok.Ejiin said: »
Then why are you getting so defensive when someone says that accuracy from gear isn't really a major concern for content it's most potent in?

Because it's dumb and unrealistic.

You are exactly one bad move away from damage failure because nearly every NM worth mentioning in this game has some form of random dispel move or spell. Finally you just toss hordes of BRD and COR mules at things which the majority of players here don't have access to. Everything I say is geared towards players being prepared, understand battle mechanics, how they relate to the different play styles and reinforcing a belief that it's better for each DD to build their own gear sets then copy paste from some random dude on an internet forum.


If you actually read what I write you'd see that I'm not advocating for any particular set, only for working around a set of parameters. Personally I don't give a rats *** what ***someone is wearing, as long as they've put it together intelligently and hit the right markers. I present mine only to give an idea of the direction and balance of stats, a set of gear that is constantly changing and being tweaked and modified. It's not perfect nor "the Ultimate bestest best best EVAH", there is no such thing in this game.

And that's the difference, I'm here to help others make themselves better, your here for ego points.

Quote:
My initial mindset coming into this was to be civil and have a meaningful conversation about WAR in endgame, but, as usual, in one fell post you've managed to ruin all that. You seriously need to chill.

Now who's really getting defensive.
 Bismarck.Gippali
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By Bismarck.Gippali 2017-06-23 15:11:23
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Asura.Azagarth said: »
he wont but a wall-o-***now will come lol.

21 seconds.
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By Blazed1979 2017-06-23 15:24:24
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Contingency sets. I guess the take-away for people trying to gear WAR who don't have experience with 2handers is you need at least 2 sets for TPing in. An Xhit with decent accuracy and an Xhit with Great accuracy depending on the situation/thing you're fighting and what buffs are available.

I think the first step towards empowering players to understand how to gear is to show two things; first which stats should be priorities and why, second maybe the accuracy requirement for different mobs.

Accuracy is your top priority because it is the base and fundamental factor of dps. 1 hit for 10 dmg, every 100 seconds is superior to 1000 hits with the potential to do 1000 dmg that all miss.
I think we got a little off topic from talking about if accuracy is needed or not, and now the topic is "how much accuracy". To answer that need to know which mob?

How much accuracy would you guys advise the players if they were doing:
1. T1s and T2s in Escha zones and Reisenjima
2. How much for T3s
3. How much for T4s - do any of them require an exceptional amount of accuracy?
4. How much for Omen
5. What's a good baseline for Ambuscade?
6. When should they use ATK food over Accuracy food.
 Asura.Saevel
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By Asura.Saevel 2017-06-23 15:43:50
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The required accuracy number bounces all over the place based on your support load out, number of spare mules and content. This months Ambuscade Intense VD for example requires quite a bit more accuracy then last months. When I give suggestions I'm trying to hit the largest audience possible, center mass of the player base. Fringe players who already know their gear, content levels and don't need gear advice.

HQ Emicho is absolutely not needed, NQ is super cheap and provides a good bridge as the player builds around their set. I even mentioned that if the player in question is using Flamma +1 body for the Store TP they can then shift to AF +3 legs / feet if / when they get them. Until then they can use augmented odyssean / valorous. With augments there is a huge variety of possible builds, which brings me to the real point.

Players requesting gear advice because their "starting up WAR again" don't need mega tuned ultra buffed CL150 gear sets. That is the last set of ***they'll be building. They need an inexpensive, easy to acquire, middle tier set that provides lots of accuracy along with the appropriate X-hit and multi-attack. I even advised looking into Zulfiqar because it's easier to gear around and provides a lot of mileage for effort. Once a player is firmly situated, has experience at various content levels, has a feeling for the various accuracy requirements and buff situations (6-man BC is HUGELY different then open air mule spam Escha NMs) then they can start making their decisions.

Empower people to take care of themselves instead of spoon feeding them "MUH ULTIMATEZ SETZ", which is useless to them but sure does virtue signal.
 Asura.Saevel
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By Asura.Saevel 2017-06-23 15:56:00
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Quote:
1. T1s and T2s in Escha zones and Reisenjima
2. How much for T3s
3. How much for T4s - do any of them require an exceptional amount of accuracy?
4. How much for Omen
5. What's a good baseline for Ambuscade?
6. When should they use ATK food over Accuracy food.

Anything in Escha really depends on Vorseals, someone who's starting or kinda middle ground wouldn't have the hella awesome Vorseals us veterans have collected.

Generally speaking, CL 130~139 you want 1100~1150 base accuracy (accuracy standing outside MH without buffs or food). Most of this content has 1250~1350 evasion so not super difficult to cap out, just becareful of level up mechanics, accuracy down debuffs or dispell moves.

CL140~145 you start wanting around 1170~1250 depending on available buffs. These things start having 1400~1500 evasion and ***gets annoying.

CL146~150 this is basically CL140~145 but with more accuracy buffs. This territory is really situation cause Sandworm has absolutely no accuracy buy the rest have around 1700~1750 evasion.

Overall baseline for a player is 1100~1150 depending. I run high only because of all the *** that happens in a fight, but that's just a personal choice I make. As a player gets more experience they can start making their own decisions based on the group they are with.
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By Blazed1979 2017-06-23 16:05:51
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I think that sums it up pretty well. Now they can all get on board and start augmenting, farming, tweaking, making contingency sets etc.

It would be a great addition to the OP to include accuracy requirements for different content. It doesn't have to be a precise science, but at least it allows people to know what/how to gear.

More bang for buck!
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 Fenrir.Skarwind
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By Fenrir.Skarwind 2017-06-23 17:55:16
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Arke is kind of growing on me. I was eating Meteor spam in Omen and wasn't really any worse for wear. The HP+ is similar to Souveran ( A bit less), but the accuracy it gives is pretty nice for DT gear.
 Ragnarok.Ejiin
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By Ragnarok.Ejiin 2017-06-23 21:53:44
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Asura.Saevel said: »
Because it's dumb and unrealistic.

You are exactly one bad move away from damage failure because nearly every NM worth mentioning in this game has some form of random dispel move or spell. Finally you just toss hordes of BRD and COR mules at things which the majority of players here don't have access to. Everything I say is geared towards players being prepared, understand battle mechanics, how they relate to the different play styles and reinforcing a belief that it's better for each DD to build their own gear sets then copy paste from some random dude on an internet forum.

Yet, you seem to lack basic understanding of the situations where WAR shines the most: zergs. Out of all the meaningful zergs WAR shines most in, only Schah has the ability to actually spam dispel like you're saying, but you can easily set up a contingency for that by using BoG/EA Torpor. Vinitapa gets locked into the one stance and actually doesn't dispel melees at all from what I've seen. Albumen, Teles, WoC and Sandworm don't have a meaningful dispel and if Kouryu roars a DD, they're screwed regardless of how they gear.

You claim we use armies of BRD and COR mules, when, in fact, we use just 2 BRDs and 1 COR for every zerg and the 2nd BRD only uses carols.

Again, no one is saying not to gear for every situation. It's been common for a very long time now to have several accuracy sets ready for situations you lose critical buffs or lack support. At this stage in the game, with the plethora of acc+/eva- options, the overall message shouldn't be to just pile on accuracy from gear, but to find better ways to incorporate support so you don't have to worry as much about accuracy from gear and can go full DPS.

The best example of what you're missing out on is the crit. damage set for MS resolution. You probably have no clue what's possible because you refuse to budge from your position and label the set as "dumb and unrealistic" while people are actually out there using it to great effect on the hardest content in the game.
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 Ragnarok.Fasaga
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By Ragnarok.Fasaga 2017-06-23 22:06:48
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Blazed1979 said: »
Priorities: Accuracy>Haste>Xhit(stp needs)>Multi-Atk

Perhaps this is the reason you can't seem to kill T4 NM's unless you're on SMN.
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 Asura.Saevel
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By Asura.Saevel 2017-06-24 00:55:42
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Ragnarok.Ejiin said: »
Again, no one is saying not to gear for every situation.

You are. All you've been doing is virtue signaling. You tried that ***awhile back and it didn't work out the way you wanted it to.

The original question was improving on basic sets for people flexing and exploring into playing WAR, not a specialized ultra zerg set that gets used only under very specific situations.

Quote:
Yet, you seem to lack basic understanding of the situations where WAR shines the most: zergs.

WTF are you smoking.

That just explains everything, your a SAM who occasionally use's WAR in MS only circumstances. That is why you information is so bad. You even said something colossally stupid regarding BLU or DRK being better pure DPS then WAR. That's some colossal derp ***right there. But hey lets pay attention to the grand stander after internet cookies who jumped in only after it become popular and not the person helping others kick *** since people declared "melee dead on high end content". Just keep laying on the insults and personal attacks, nobody here is buying it.
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By Staleyx 2017-06-24 01:21:31
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Can the mods just go thru all this *** swinging and delete everything not usefull please including this post. ***is getting old.
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 Ragnarok.Ejiin
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By Ragnarok.Ejiin 2017-06-24 01:57:29
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Have you even tried? Have you compared WAR to BLU in 3man Vagary? Have you compared WAR to SAM when solo skillchaining? As someone who actually plays all the jobs I mentioned, I can 100% say you have no clue what you're talking about.
 Asura.Saevel
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By Asura.Saevel 2017-06-24 02:15:19
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Ragnarok.Ejiin said: »
Have you even tried? Have you compared WAR to BLU in 3man Vagary? Have you compared WAR to SAM when solo skillchaining? As someone who actually plays all the jobs I mentioned, I can 100% say you have no clue what you're talking about.

...

You know I actually do play those jobs .... in those situations...

So yeah fail attempt at insulting there.
 Ragnarok.Ejiin
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By Ragnarok.Ejiin 2017-06-24 02:41:11
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Asura.Saevel said: »
...

You know I actually do play those jobs .... in those situations...

So yeah fail attempt at insulting there.

Wait, you're saying WAR is better at multistep skillchaining than SAM? WAR is better in low buff situations than BLU? I just want to make sure this is what you're saying.

I'm not sure you even realize that you would get absolutely embarrassed in any sort of HELM zerg due to your gear/thinking being inferior, so your opinion on even WAR holds little weight with me right now.
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By Blazed1979 2017-06-24 03:26:37
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Ragnarok.Fasaga said: »
Perhaps this is the reason you can't seem to kill T4 NM's unless you're on SMN.
Can and have killed them just fine on other jobs (in fact, I have on every DPS job that I have mastered and geared).
But let me for one second take your statement seriously, even though I have no clue who you are.
Are you saying there is another Hierarchy priority list for stats for 2handers? Please share it.

Or are you just a hungry troll or an envious lil ****?
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By maldini 2017-06-24 03:28:49
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Blazed1979 said: »
Ragnarok.Fasaga said: »
Perhaps this is the reason you can't seem to kill T4 NM's unless you're on SMN.
Can and have killed them just fine on other jobs (in fact, every DPS job I have).
But let me for one second take your statement seriously, even though I have no clue who you are.
Are you saying there is another priority list for stats for 2handers? Please share it.

Or are you just a hungry troll or an envious lil ***?


No dude! He's saying that SMN is gimp lol. Either way, he's fookin tarded lol
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By Odinz 2017-06-24 03:36:25
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Ragnarok.Fasaga said: »
Perhaps this is the reason you can't seem to kill T4 NM's unless you're on SMN.

Trying to use a valid hierarchy of priorities as a way to try to undermine someone?
Either not very inteligent or doesn't understand game mechanics?
Either way, needs help.
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By Staleyx 2017-06-24 03:42:22
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Come on mods save this thread.
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 Ragnarok.Ejiin
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By Ragnarok.Ejiin 2017-06-24 03:51:50
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No one is disputing the hierarchy.

His overall point is you can, for all intents and purposes, ignore the accuracy aspect of the hierarchy when with as little as vorseals/food and a BRD, you can have +700 accuracy. Think about that for a second: You can have a TP/WS set with 1000 base Accuracy and still cap out on everything in the game minus Albumen. There's still a plethora of other ways to increase player accuracy/decrease mob evasion outside of those 3 things before you have to consider using extreme accuracy sets.

As for STP, his point was with what's already considered best in slot TP gear with the addition of CC SAM roll, you really don't have to take STP from gear into account, but I think that's for Ragnarok only(not sure about if a heavy STP set is worth it for other GS).
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By Blazed1979 2017-06-24 03:52:02
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Its not like we DON'T prefer using SMNS. We do.
We trio-box/4 man Kouryu and Vini on our SMNS. We did the same to Vini,Zerde, and Schah. We can't do that with WARs and DRKs. We don't have the numbers nor do we NEED them.
@fasafag You're on Ragnarok, why don't you invite my WAR to one of your T4 runs, parse it and post it?
=)
Talk is cheap!
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By Blazed1979 2017-06-24 03:54:42
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Ragnarok.Ejiin said: »
No one is disputing the hierarchy.

His overall point is you can, for all intents and purposes, ignore the accuracy aspect of the hierarchy when with as little as vorseals/food and a BRD, you can have +700 accuracy. Think about that for a second: You can have a TP/WS set with 1000 base Accuracy and still cap out on everything in the game minus Albumen. There's still a plethora of other ways to increase player accuracy/decrease mob evasion outside of those 3 things before you have to consider using extreme accuracy sets.

As for STP, his point was with what's already considered best in slot TP gear with the addition of CC SAM roll, you really don't have to take STP from gear into account, but I think that's for Ragnarok only(not sure about if a heavy STP set is worth it for other GS).

And we're saying the same thing, again.
The hierarchy remains the hierarchy - how you get there (which was the entire point of what I was saying, and indeed Saevel) is up to you. Be it through food, buffs, vorseals or gear

The entire context of the conversation was empowering players to understand what they need to prioritise.
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By Blazed1979 2017-06-24 05:34:45
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I've watched a lot of Ejiin's videos and talked to him in game. Outside of my group, he's one of the few players on Ragnarok that I can get sound advice on stuff, especially DPS. I wouldn't dismiss what he has to say so easily and would actually take it on as a means to improve.
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By Ragnarok.Phuoc 2017-06-24 06:25:07
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Ragnarok.Fasaga said: »
Blazed1979 said: »
Priorities: Accuracy>Haste>Xhit(stp needs)>Multi-Atk

Perhaps this is the reason you can't seem to kill T4 NM's unless you're on SMN.

We are together along dani on a set and we've killed basically everything melee wise (except zerde) but its waaaaaay more efficient rosource/time wise to kill it with pimped SMNs, you need less people and the chance of success is almost 100% unless some funny thing happens like zerde resisting 1 stun.
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By Blazed1979 2017-06-24 06:35:36
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Another 4 man.
90 second kill. Can you do this Failsaga?
Oceanz is my mule. Only there for clear point.
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 Bismarck.Gippali
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By Bismarck.Gippali 2017-06-24 07:49:20
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Blazed1979 said: »
Talk is cheap!

Would you say it's as cheap as posting cool bro ego pics of SMN in the WAR thread?
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 Asura.Saevel
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By Asura.Saevel 2017-06-24 08:26:22
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Blazed1979 said: »
Ragnarok.Ejiin said: »
No one is disputing the hierarchy.

His overall point is you can, for all intents and purposes, ignore the accuracy aspect of the hierarchy when with as little as vorseals/food and a BRD, you can have +700 accuracy. Think about that for a second: You can have a TP/WS set with 1000 base Accuracy and still cap out on everything in the game minus Albumen. There's still a plethora of other ways to increase player accuracy/decrease mob evasion outside of those 3 things before you have to consider using extreme accuracy sets.

As for STP, his point was with what's already considered best in slot TP gear with the addition of CC SAM roll, you really don't have to take STP from gear into account, but I think that's for Ragnarok only(not sure about if a heavy STP set is worth it for other GS).

And we're saying the same thing, again.
The hierarchy remains the hierarchy - how you get there (which was the entire point of what I was saying, and indeed Saevel) is up to you. Be it through food, buffs, vorseals or gear

The entire context of the conversation was empowering players to understand what they need to prioritise.

It's just Ejin trying to take over the meta and boost his ego via internet E-thuggery and personal attacks.





We're here discussing general purpose for accuracy and his answer is "hyper buffed sets the way my LS does IS THE ONLY ANSWER". When brought up that there are a variety of content the answer is "use another job like SAM cause I'm better on it".

Anyhow there is plenty of information for people wanting to update and tweak their sets. Nobody needs to buy uber expensive ***, well augmented Reisen gear is fine enough and for TP there is some pretty solid and cheap NQ stuff as hold overs.
 Asura.Saevel
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By Asura.Saevel 2017-06-24 08:26:58
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Bismarck.Gippali said: »
Blazed1979 said: »
Talk is cheap!

Would you say it's as cheap as posting cool bro ego pics of SMN in the WAR thread?

Not as cheap as telling people to go DRK BLU or SAM to content, in that same thread.

Oh wow, he called in his LS for support lol.
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 Ragnarok.Fasaga
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By Ragnarok.Fasaga 2017-06-24 08:37:08
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Yikes, I guess I should know after this long that you can't say much without people resorting to hurling personal insults. My original post in the discussion was to help Firedemon gear up his WAR. I just don't understand the logic behind someone arguing without using experience or math. If someone can show me that I'm wrong, great, then I can make changes and improve my own sets.
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By Ragnarok.Fasaga 2017-06-24 08:40:34
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Asura.Saevel said: »
Blazed1979 said: »
Ragnarok.Ejiin said: »
No one is disputing the hierarchy.

His overall point is you can, for all intents and purposes, ignore the accuracy aspect of the hierarchy when with as little as vorseals/food and a BRD, you can have +700 accuracy. Think about that for a second: You can have a TP/WS set with 1000 base Accuracy and still cap out on everything in the game minus Albumen. There's still a plethora of other ways to increase player accuracy/decrease mob evasion outside of those 3 things before you have to consider using extreme accuracy sets.

As for STP, his point was with what's already considered best in slot TP gear with the addition of CC SAM roll, you really don't have to take STP from gear into account, but I think that's for Ragnarok only(not sure about if a heavy STP set is worth it for other GS).

And we're saying the same thing, again.
The hierarchy remains the hierarchy - how you get there (which was the entire point of what I was saying, and indeed Saevel) is up to you. Be it through food, buffs, vorseals or gear

The entire context of the conversation was empowering players to understand what they need to prioritise.

It's just Ejin trying to take over the meta and boost his ego via internet E-thuggery and personal attacks.





We're here discussing general purpose for accuracy and his answer is "hyper buffed sets the way my LS does IS THE ONLY ANSWER". When brought up that there are a variety of content the answer is "use another job like SAM cause I'm better on it".

Anyhow there is plenty of information for people wanting to update and tweak their sets. Nobody needs to buy uber expensive ***, well augmented Reisen gear is fine enough and for TP there is some pretty solid and cheap NQ stuff as hold overs.

It's interesting that you're making fun of people for being a keyboard warrior, when it's really you and blazed that have been throwing out personal attacks.
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