Shijin Spiral Build Questions

I'm a returning player after 2 years and I'm kind of confused in how to put together a build for Shijin. The old "stack as much accuracy as you can" that I remember for MNK WSs seems to be dead.

Firstly, can SS double attack and crit?

Secondly, when does +DEX beat +attack? Here are some gear toss-ups I'm having regarding this and would like to know which route I should take

Neck: Moepapa Medal vs. Justiciar's Torque (or is a Flame Gorget better here?)
Body: Shura Togi vs. Kirin's Osode
Earring: Ghillie +1 vs. Justiciar's Earring
Ring: Tyrant's Ring vs. Thundersoul Ring
Belt: Prosilio Belt vs. Artful Belt +1
Feet: Scopuli Nails vs. Rager Ledelsen

I'm completely confused on whether to go DEX or Attack.

If anyone has some other suggestions I can grab off the AH or are easy to obtain, I'm all ears. I just got my first Tantra +1 piece and got a long ways ahead of me for all this new gear out now.

SS can DA, can't crit. When people say +DEX beats +attack, they don't really understand how it all works.

It's probably what, 1:2.75 for equivalency in most low-buff scenarios?

you're probably going to be best off with
Brawny Adargas
Ocelomeh Headpiece
Toci's harness
atheling mantle
Juticars or Kubira Bead necklace (not sure honestly about neck)
Myrmex mittens or mustela gloves or athos's gloves
Wanion belt or pilakaka belt (not sure about belt)
brutal earring
rajas ring
Byakkos haidate
not sure what ammo you should make use of
a +DEX earring or ghillie work i think
Epona's ring or a +dex ring
melee gaiters +2

Edit:
if some of these are out of reach huh you could do this instead
Aias bonnet
Loki's kaftan
not sure on neck
Hachiryu Kote or melee gloves +2
Pilakaka belt or werwolf belt
brutal
rajas or some dex ring
Enkidu's subligar/Kacura subligar/Usukane Hizayoroi
Ghillie
dex ring
kacura leggings +1/Athos's shoes

Would a Prosilio Belt's -DA negate it as a belt option then? I can't find anything else, using a Warwolf Belt right now.

Just a question, an elemental belt wont be good for a ws set like this?

http://wiki.bluegartr.com/bg/Shijin_Spiral

Under notes. Doesn't include the thing about fTP going for all hits or something like the others such as Blade: Shun. It led me to believe that Justiciar's Torque/Prosilio would be better because of the attack+ and the +5% atk bonus.

Aias bonnet (Head)
Loki's kaften (Body)
Melee gloves +2 (Hands)
Byakko's haidate (Legs)
Athos's boots (Feet)
Brutal and Ghillie earrings (Ear1 and Ear2, respectively)
Atheling mantle (Back)
Rajas and Epona's rings (Ring1 and Ring2, respectively)
Light gorget (Neck)
Flame belt (Waist)

That's my Shijin macro.

Attack bonus is first-hit only, apparently. This doesn't really change the answer, it's just something no one ever talks about.

Really? I've never looked up the attack bonus testing. Does that mean weapon skills with attack penalties such as resolution/drakes are also first hit only?

I don't know, but all of the Japanese testing that originally found the attack bonuses / penalties for the merit WS showed that for the ones with fTP transfer, attack mods transfer, and without fTP transfer, the attack bonuses were first-hit only.

Interesting, although I guess saddening as it means the ws is very slightly worse than I thought it was.

Do you have a link to the attack bonus testing Sylow? This is actually something I wanted to go test after hearing that Shoha's 2nd hit didn't get attack bonus, while I am almost certain that ascetic's fury does.

Umm, it's posted somewhere in the Mathy forums on BG. My posting history is really scant on BG so it's probably easy to find it by looking for the post where I translated something from it.

Can anyone post ideal gear sets for a Pup using SS?

Is your reference of things like "Extenerator +5%, 1st hit only" based on "possible 1st stage only magnification" translation on the link to the JP dmg calculator thing?

I think its somewhere in there.

The thing that translates to "first stage" on google translate means "First hit." Hit <==> Stage.

They had posted their methodology somewhere, but it's been so long since I've looked at it. -->

《変更WSの設定》　　　　倍率適用
　　　短剣　エクゼンテレター　初段 攻+5%
　　片手剣　レクイエスカット　全段 攻-22%
　　両手剣　レゾルーション　　全段 攻-11%　 倍率TP300:(238/256)
　　片手斧　ルイネーター　　　全段 攻+10%
　　片手刀　瞬　　　　　　　　全段 攻-5%
　　両手刀　十二之太刀・照破　初段 攻+37.5%　倍率TP200(552/256) TP300(680/256)
　　
　　攻撃力修正の大きさについては精度低め妄想混じりです。またTP200～300の攻修正値は未設定。


http://yy28.60.kg/test/read.cgi/ff11jobjobplus/1314541339/39-42

From what I can tell, those "1st hit" and "All hits" magnification have nothing to do with attack, and are purely talking about fTP, much as studio gobli refers to jishnu's as all hits magnification. If you look at the shoha testing in particular it shows his average WS coming out as 1123 damage over 102 Shoha's, and 1174 out of a sample of 23 Shoha's. These numbers can not be reached if the attack bonus only applied to the 1st hit. He then states that although he has a range somewhere in the area of 1.368, it is probably the same as "1st hit magnification" (Shoha 100TP 1st hit is 1.375).

It literally says attack.

初段 攻+5% "First hit Attack + 5%"

Referring to FTP Japanese uses 倍率 (scaling factor)

But if it's not true, it's not true, I don't even know Shoha's fTP!

Yeah I think it's just written weird or something out the top of that column it says 　倍率適用 (scaling factor applies to) and the 1st hit, all hits etc. and attack is like the next item, or column or w/e. I don't really know to be honest unless it looks funny because it was copy+pasted from a structured chart. His tests definitely show the 2hit of Shoha getting the attack bonus, but I will go do an easy enough test with ascetic's fury sometime this week anyway.

How come so many people use Melee Gloves +2 on SS? Wouldn't Hachiryu be a better choice, assuming capped accuracy? 10DEX vs. 22 Attack, I am le confused...

This is what I've built so far in the last month that I've returned to the game:


Slowly getting there, I've just barely skimmed Abyssea content and have a while before VW/Provenance and all that. I know I need to get rid of the Osode, saving up for an Ocelomeh Harness until Toci's.

Any other recommendations for my current set? Particularly belt, is there anything better than Pipilaka/Wanion?

Im not sure if it's the case here, but part of the damage formula involves the ws's main Modifier multiplied by its % of how much that mod is used to influence the ws. However, there is also a division part multiplied in the formula where your attack is divided by the mobs defense. So it's very possible that the gained attack influences the ws moreso than the added DEX. As I stated first, I'm not sure if that is the case here, just stating the influence both have on ws damage.

They probably use it because the only decent DEX options for the hand slot are Hach, Athos's Gloves, Myrmex Mittens, and Mustela Glvoes--which although Mustela/Athos aren't terribly rare, they aren't the most common items a lot of individuals have either--so I am guessing some people use Melee+2 due to a lack of better options. I currently use Mustela in the hand slot myself for Spiral, and would use Myrmex on wave 2/3 legion mobs if I had them more than likely. But then again, given the nature of Legion--smite is superior in there anyway.

I had my new JP friend get back to me about what you were talking about Sylow.


This is really good to know that attack bonus is applied to all hits for all WSs so that people can adjust accordingly. It doesn't make much difference for something like Shijin, but helps much more knowing for Shoha that the larger 37.5% bonus applies to all hits and not just the first.

Here is what I use right now.


Would Moepapa Medal be better than Justiciar's Torque?

Anything else that I should change in this set?

Would Aife's Mantle be better when ACC is a problem?

Use Moepapa Medal when your attack is capped and use potestas bomblet when your attack is uncapped I.e. Berserk is down.

If acc is a problem aife's mantle would not be the best option to switch. Use a gorget instead of justicars torque and same for waist slot. Any acc issues that are not corrected by those two swaps would call for pizza as your food instead of rcb.

Would Wanion Belt beat Artful belt +1?

If you aren't capping fstr, yes.