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Damage Calculator
 Asura.Arkanethered
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By Asura.Arkanethered 2011-03-24 16:10:09
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Originally posted here: http://www.ffxiah.com/forum/topic/19948/ffxi-melee-damage-comparator-v510-20march2011/1/#1225582
By, Masamunai


This is the first damage calculator that I have come across that actually has Drk as an option. Could a couple of you more math inclined people check this thing out and give an opinion on its accuracy?

Hopefully we end up with a tool that allows us to nit pick our gearsets.
 Unicorn.Motenten
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By Unicorn.Motenten 2011-03-25 00:20:29
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Been very busy of late, and not keeping up with the spreadsheets, but got reminded that I needed to work on a few of them (was reminded before Masamunai's update, but have had limited time lately; this post just happens to coincide with things).

Did preliminary work for a drk spreadsheet. Added Endark, and it handles several weapon types (doesn't try to calculate Fell Cleave for GA, though), but doesn't yet work in LR/SE.

As I don't have a very deep understanding of full drk mechanics and gear choices, I'm just throwing it up for others to check out first. There are several factors that make drk more difficult to model (LR/SE, HP builds, Absorb-TP, etc), so this is at best a very rough minimum approximation.

Can be found at my usual website: http://bellsouthpwp2.net/k/i/kinematicf/FFXI/DPSSpreadsheets/

Edit: new download location: Google docs. Do not use the bellsouth address.
 Asura.Arkanethered
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By Asura.Arkanethered 2011-03-25 00:32:45
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Needs moar Catastrophe tab... >.>

hehe, looks good though ^^
 Unicorn.Motenten
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By Unicorn.Motenten 2011-03-25 10:42:11
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As a followup to Hitoseijuro's post in the VS thread in the mnk forum:

You happen to have fTP/mod values for Quietus? Wiki didn't have them listed, but I'm not sure if they've been figured out and mentioned in one of the BG threads or something. Also need haste percentage for Catastrophe's aftermath. Once I have something there, I'll add those in.

Also, what base HP does SE use when cruor buffs are present? 'Real' HP, or buffed HP?
 Asura.Arkanethered
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By Asura.Arkanethered 2011-03-25 12:06:23
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I dont have the info for quietus. Cata is 102/1024 equipment haste. SE is based off of your current hp buffs included.
 Ragnarok.Returner
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By Ragnarok.Returner 2011-03-25 16:03:56
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Quietus info is here:

3.00 ftp 40% str 40% mnd

Ignore defense: 10% at 100% tp, 30% at 200% tp, 50% at 300% tp.

I hope this helps.

Source is studiogobli.
 Quetzalcoatl.Volkom
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By Quetzalcoatl.Volkom 2011-03-25 16:20:54
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Unicorn.Motenten said:
As a followup to Hitoseijuro's post in the VS thread in the mnk forum: You happen to have fTP/mod values for Quietus? Wiki didn't have them listed, but I'm not sure if they've been figured out and mentioned in one of the BG threads or something. Also need haste percentage for Catastrophe's aftermath. Once I have something there, I'll add those in. Also, what base HP does SE use when cruor buffs are present? 'Real' HP, or buffed HP?
thought souleater ate 10% of current hp?
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By Fenrir.Gradd 2011-03-25 17:34:24
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Quetzalcoatl.Volkom said:
Unicorn.Motenten said:
As a followup to Hitoseijuro's post in the VS thread in the mnk forum: You happen to have fTP/mod values for Quietus? Wiki didn't have them listed, but I'm not sure if they've been figured out and mentioned in one of the BG threads or something. Also need haste percentage for Catastrophe's aftermath. Once I have something there, I'll add those in. Also, what base HP does SE use when cruor buffs are present? 'Real' HP, or buffed HP?
thought souleater ate 10% of current hp?

Correct 10% of current hp, 12% if you are using enhancement gear such as AF/+1 Helm (Is it even worth using anymore for Weaponskill?)
 Ifrit.Hitoseijuro
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By Ifrit.Hitoseijuro 2011-03-25 23:00:53
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I think hes asking if you guys know if SE is using only the HP before cruor buffs or after. Best example is sorc ring has to be proc'd precruor buffs.

So if you proc'd the ring at 700 hp outside of abyssea, you have to proc it with 700hp inside of abyssea even with 3000 hp( way below the 75% mark if you consider 3000 100%)
 Leviathan.Apoptygma
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By Leviathan.Apoptygma 2011-03-26 00:19:56
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I have used this Damage Comparator for quite some time now.
This tool was designed when 75 cap was still in effect, and abyssea did not exist.
It still has an 85 cap in the last version, however you can adjust your base stats accordingly.
Alot of the newer gear is missing, but you can add it yourself.
AF3 Set Bonuses have not been accounted for yet. And possibly some newer job traits?
Also, keep in mind your Damage Results, depend on what mob you have selected.
There's like 20 non-abyssea mob presets to choose from. Which as far as I know, have been pretested to some accurate extent.
I enjoy playing with this .doc quite a bit, but I always keep my Kparser near.
 Unicorn.Motenten
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By Unicorn.Motenten 2011-03-26 01:39:56
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Catastrophe and Quietus added.

Catastrophe aftermath added as option for equipment haste total. Must be flagged and have Catastrophe selected as the weaponskill (swapping to a different weaponskill will remove the haste bonus, so you can still compare easily without changing the flag).

Quietus defense reduction accounted for.

Adjusted format so that you can specify subjob at top of Calcs page and have it automatically add in DA/att for /war, or Store TP for /sam. Any other selection (eg: /nin) adds nothing.

Fixed Store TP from atma.

Added Souleater. May toggle it on and off for either gear set. Assumes 20% uptime either way (1 minute up, 5 minute recast) for both melee and weaponskill. May adjust what you consider your average HP while it is active (90% default, figuring 3 melee hits per cure).

Extra flag added if using gear that boosts you to 12% HP used per hit since I don't have a flag for it in the gear lists.

Bale set bonus not accounted for.

Drk weaponskill mods are getting annoying... int, mnd, agi, vit, str and hp... gear selection page is getting bloated, as is the calcs page, even after streamlining some stuff.

May let a few of these 'retire' if people find Masamunai's spreadsheet more useful.
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By Bahamut.Phix 2011-03-26 02:06:20
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Any chance of a DRG spread sheet?
 Ifrit.Hitoseijuro
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By Ifrit.Hitoseijuro 2011-03-28 05:19:22
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Been missing around with the drk spreadsheet, very interesting indeed. Comparing Apoc/Redemption/Cal 90 versions seems to show caladborg in the lead(no surprise there).

I found Apoc/RR/A&O to be the best combo(even with full timing SE), with Apoc/rr/GH being slightly behind that.

Seems with the setup I had made vs an optimal fudo sam setup, the sets were almost indentical in dps. Think only fudo sam was ahead by 2-5% with exp defense type mobs and on higher defense mobs it lost ground vs a drk by 1-2%.

This is w/o factoring meditate though, which would favor sam slightly more. However at the same time this doesnt factor the 30 seconds of LR either which would also push a drk's damage up slightly overall.

I thought that was a nice thing to see, as I didnt expect drk to be as good as a fudo sam. Sadly however, both are still 20% under what monk is doing on exp mobs and funny enough, 30% under that on higher def mobs.


Ill be doing some more numbers later this tomorrow or this week on outside of abyssea and see how that goes, Im sure the % between the jobs will be different.

If anyone has an optimal setup they think is best for tp/ws let me know. Or if anyone would like to see the setups I used I can post them.

Im always up for proving ppl about drk being horrible, wrong.


Motenten said:
May let a few of these 'retire' if people find Masamunai's spreadsheet more useful.
I personally perfer yours as its "cleaner" a bit more organized than masamunai's. Ive found a few too many bugs to deal with using that program atm. I found this a less of a hassle, no offense to masamunai's program. I found he did have a large variety of gear(thats a good thing) and a lot more buffs to add on. Im sure hell work out the bugs soon enough~
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By Cerberus.Raddmage 2011-03-28 08:24:46
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can i use this to tell me my exact tp per hit? just looking over it and im not quite 100% sure how to use it
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By Ragnarok.Returner 2011-03-28 09:57:44
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I would be interested to see a comparison against emp mnk and emp war "outside" abyssea. Like in a dynamis outland situation and see how well drk will fare. As for comparing caladbolg drk and fudo sam, I assume you were doing caladbolg 6 hit vs fudo 5 hit right?

Sidenote: Does the spread sheet take endark into account as well?
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By Unicorn.Motenten 2011-03-28 10:01:50
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TP per hit is usually in column M around row 21, near the summary line that shows effective weapon delay (after factoring in Dual Wield or Martial Arts, if applicable). That's the base value, properly calculated, before adding Store TP. Some spreadsheets have two entries, for different DW values per gear set.

Phix, I'll poke around at a drg sheet, but no guarantees right now.

@Hito: Ok, I'll try to keep them all updated. Am mulling ideas to better handle the organization/layout, as things are getting a bit messy for my tastes.
 Ifrit.Hitoseijuro
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By Ifrit.Hitoseijuro 2011-03-28 10:10:10
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Ragnarok.Returner said:
I would be interested to see a comparison against emp mnk and emp war "outside" abyssea. Like in a dynamis outland situation and see how well drk will fare. As for comparing caladbolg drk and fudo sam, I assume you were doing caladbolg 6 hit vs fudo 5 hit right? Sidenote: Does the spread sheet take endark into account as well?
I can do that, sadly though I dont know what guidelines youd want on the mobs(vit/def/lvl) I generally just presume to use the mob stats from abyssea and use them for outside source. Therefore it will ready me a bit for newer outside content that may surface later on as we progress from 90 to 99.

As for the comparison, I didnt use a 6hit caladbolg as with all the DA/TA it actually made a 6hit less appealing and funny enough did less damage overall. If you can give me a 6hit that you absolutely think well be better, im open to compare it.

As far as masamune 5 hit goes, I went with 6hit as someone found a better 6hit build that beats a 5hit build funny enough(however its only 2-3% increase). Remember with the amounts of DA/TA you get, your average # of rounds to reach 100tp changes and therefore you are no longer maintaining an exact x-build, so the averages is going to be different.

Motenten's spreadsheet does take endark into affect aswell as the delay you get when casting it, so after a point in haste, it becomes less useful as it slows your dps down. However you can click it off on the spread sheet.
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By Ragnarok.Returner 2011-03-28 10:26:42
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I think for abyssea outland, xarcabard in mind, using abyssea mob stats will work.

As for 5 hit vs 6 hit, as well as against mnk and war, I was mainly talking about outside abyssea. So no TA atma involved. At this point I am just hoping we get out of abyssea asap so drk can serve a purpose again.

For calad 6 hit, I think the build with:

calad/rose/whiteT
zelus/almah/brutal/attilas
aurum/af3+2/rajas/hoard
tactical/goading/ace's/ace's

is the best possible 6 hit build. Whether it tops 7 hit or not I am not exactly sure, I think it does, but it is alot of sacrifice, tho not exactly in the haste area as it is only about 0.5% haste short, mainly attack and DA.
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By Ifrit.Hitoseijuro 2011-03-30 04:50:21
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Ya going with more DA/attack/str(when uncapped) seems to be better than x-hit build(1-5% better depending on circumstances). This goes for war and sam builds aswell. I found 6hit sam and war builds better than 5hit ones, in and outside abyssea it seems.

As far as comparisons go for outside, sadly drk is about 20% behind war, it was actually 3-5% ahead when I started on tp comparisons but once you start factoring merits, and buffs and ws+ gear, it starts to pull ahead of drk. Everything was factored except retaliators, which would probably boost it up a bit more aswell. Funny enough inside abyssea war doesnt have that big of a gap atleast not as big as outside(or as big as originally thought of, torcleaver must really be that good). As far as monk goes, its pretty even with war if not better at times.

I used both spreadsheets to compare as much as I could, and both had drk behind war by a fair margin(15% + in and out). As a mobs difficulty settings go higher, war pulls ahead of drk more, and funny enough monk pulls ahead of both of them(which was the opposite at one point, victory smite is really that good). Endark was not calculated for one of the spreadsheets as I dont think they had it, while I know motenten's does.
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By Fenrir.Gradd 2011-03-30 06:15:21
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Good info, thanks Hito :3
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By Ragnarok.Returner 2011-03-30 09:36:33
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That's kinda odd hmmm. If I am getting it right, it seems like you are saying that emp war performs better than calad drk inside/outside abyssea in the same degree, and slightly bigger margin outside abyssea.

That's hard to believe since wars benefit a huge deal from RR while drks benefit about half as much if not less than wars from RR. That alone should close the gap between the two by a mile. Consider Ukko's fury with 95% critical hit rate and 50% critical hit damage bonus and extra STR from cruor and VV and TA from atma vs Ukko's furry with about 50% critical hit rate and 10% critical hit damage bonus. You are talking about at the minimum 50%-75% difference in damage. Also assuming 50% TP:WS split, which is conservative considering how strong ukko is, we are talking about 25% overall damage. While torcleaver benefit some inside abyssea, it is in no way the same degree as Ukko's as you are getting nothing from STR, and if you use A/O/RR/Apoc atma you are gaining no modifier what so ever. TA helps some, but each TA is 2.0 of 5.2 ftp, and 25% of the time so 10% increase at best. I don't see how drks can be closer inside abyssea than outside.

I would think drk would be close to wars outside as is the case for sam. This is from one of the math guru in BG, he thinks Fudo sam is still the best DD outside abyssea, and you said sam is 5% better than drks. I had my doubt about his statement but I understand how much a boost critical hit WSs get from RR alone. I can see his point (he obviously got the math to back it up as well), this is not to say that I doubt the spread sheet, but it just doesn't seem right. I have no doubt wars and mnks are superior even outside, but I think it would be much much closer.
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By Ifrit.Hitoseijuro 2011-03-30 22:55:49
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Ragnarok.Returner said:
That's kinda odd hmmm. If I am getting it right, it seems like you are saying that emp war performs better than calad drk inside/outside abyssea in the same degree, and slightly bigger margin outside abyssea. That's hard to believe since wars benefit a huge deal from RR while drks benefit about half as much if not less than wars from RR. That alone should close the gap between the two by a mile. Consider Ukko's fury with 95% critical hit rate and 50% critical hit damage bonus and extra STR from cruor and VV and TA from atma vs Ukko's furry with about 50% critical hit rate and 10% critical hit damage bonus. You are talking about at the minimum 50%-75% difference in damage. Also assuming 50% TP:WS split, which is conservative considering how strong ukko is, we are talking about 25% overall damage. While torcleaver benefit some inside abyssea, it is in no way the same degree as Ukko's as you are getting nothing from STR, and if you use A/O/RR/Apoc atma you are gaining no modifier what so ever. TA helps some, but each TA is 2.0 of 5.2 ftp, and 25% of the time so 10% increase at best. I don't see how drks can be closer inside abyssea than outside. I would think drk would be close to wars outside as is the case for sam. This is from one of the math guru in BG, he thinks Fudo sam is still the best DD outside abyssea, and you said sam is 5% better than drks. I had my doubt about his statement but I understand how much a boost critical hit WSs get from RR alone. I can see his point (he obviously got the math to back it up as well), this is not to say that I doubt the spread sheet, but it just doesn't seem right. I have no doubt wars and mnks are superior even outside, but I think it would be much much closer.

Yea I didnt like the outcome either :/

Anyhow I decided to see what was up and it seems like you have to manual punch in the % not only for the TP but for the ws setups aswell(which motenten's does it already, which is why I perfer that one, but all the merits/JAs arent in motenten's so I had to settle with testing masa's). I found this rather strange since I didnt have to do it for the stats when I did it to the tp it reflected on the ws aswell. Common sense would say that that would also apply to stats like crit/dmg etc but that wasnt the case. So ya it wasnt accounting for crits/dmg on ws so the 19% difference jumped up to 33-35% difference. As far as the 5% difference between drk and sam, it was inside abyssea but not factoring JA buffs, which with them its like more of a 7-10% difference.

Again, retaliators doesnt seem to be accounted for in masa's spread from what I can tell, and I know its not counted in motenten, so the % is going to go up slightly for war again. I dont think masa's spreadsheet is accounting for the bonus that ravager's hands+2 gives either.

Did some more tweaking on the hit builds, and aslong as you are benefitting from a higher attack food (ie RCB) the 6hit/7hit builds were better than their lower hit builds. So anything youre capping attack on reasonbly well with carb as a food, your lower hit build will be better.

As far as fudo sam being the best DD, it varies, while on weaker mobs sam does pull ahead of war(retaliators is not counted still...) on anything beefy, war pulls ahead of sam around the same margin as sam did. No surprise either as any fudo sam will tell you that on beefy defensive mobs fudo starts to fall(remember kaiten on HNMs?) to the point where gekko would probably have been better(or atleast I hear, Taint from cerb I believe can varify how bad fudo can be on high def mobs vs fury/smite). If anything monk will be the better DD outside of abyssea. As its melee isnt rivaled by any job as of yet, and its ws can rival that of a war and sam outside.

Not sure what test subjects ppl use for this, normally I use an abyssea type mobs stats, lv 97 450-420(500 for NMs) def 91 vit agi as a few ppl have confirmed that aswell as motenten using it. I also used kirins stats and 84 kindred war stats just to give a general idea of what stats ppl will encounter defense wise and lv(dyna + old HNMs) kirins still pretty beefy defense wise for old content so I thought it was relevant to use that.
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By Ragnarok.Returner 2011-03-31 12:14:28
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that is sad but that's actually more of what I had in mind.

As far as ukko against beef mobs, you have to take into account that you are going to critical way less against beef mob due to the fact that you are no longer going to gear for dDex (rule of thumb, if you are not capping it, don't bother with it), instead you are going str, att, acc. I doubt ukko beats fudo or torcleaver much if at all even against beef mobs, I would think they are at the same level, similar to how Raging Rush was never better than the like of g/k/y or spinniing slash against hard mobs pre abyssea. I know gekko is probably 10% better than fudo in situations where you can benefit from the full 100% ratio bonus, but raging rush was no where close to gekko, and ukko is really just a RR +1. What make ukko good is the critical hits, but you are not going to critical a whole lot, 30% perhaps, against beef up mobs. At the same time you are going to have to worry about accuracy on the second hit since beef up mobs supposed to have more evasion.

But either way, we need a buff, there is no other way to put it.
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By Cerberus.Kvazz 2011-04-07 04:39:33
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Unicorn.Motenten said:
Been very busy of late, and not keeping up with the spreadsheets, but got reminded that I needed to work on a few of them (was reminded before Masamunai's update, but have had limited time lately; this post just happens to coincide with things).

Did preliminary work for a drk spreadsheet. Added Endark, and it handles several weapon types (doesn't try to calculate Fell Cleave for GA, though), but doesn't yet work in LR/SE.

As I don't have a very deep understanding of full drk mechanics and gear choices, I'm just throwing it up for others to check out first. There are several factors that make drk more difficult to model (LR/SE, HP builds, Absorb-TP, etc), so this is at best a very rough minimum approximation.

Can be found at my usual website: http://bellsouthpwp2.net/k/i/kinematicf/FFXI/DPSSpreadsheets/

These are awesome.
Played around with the DRK one, only thing I'm gonna complain about is that OAT high dmg weapons werent in there :P
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By Ifrit.Hitoseijuro 2011-04-07 05:47:15
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Cerberus.Kvazz said:
These are awesome. Played around with the DRK one, only thing I'm gonna complain about is that OAT high dmg weapons werent in there :P
You can do that manually, just insert the scythe you want and put the OAT % at 40 as iirc thats what ppl were parsing/testing it to be.
necroskull Necro Bump Detected! [47 days between previous and next post]
 Unicorn.Motenten
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By Unicorn.Motenten 2011-05-24 10:34:44
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Uploaded a new version of the spreadsheet. It's been completely revamped in line with what I did with the thf spreadsheet. While it simplifies setup, it does make certain things more complicated.

Sets are now completely independent. Average DPS is not some 60/40 split between the two (though there's a spot where you can put in your own ratios to get a combined DPS). Souleater damage is no longer factored in as being on an average of 1/6 of the time.

Instead, if you set things up to have Souleater active, you will get the DPS for SE being active. Same thing for Last Resort/Desperate Blows, etc. To get an overall DPS, you'll have to factor together all the blended aspects of your playstyle (eg: always use SE with LR? or only when LR is down? SE for weaponskills only, or full time it for its full duration? etc)

With Souleater used on weaponskills, it calculates the additional damage based on the number of hits landed, and then averages them all together as usual. The starting HP is the value listed on the setup page as average/starting HP. That number is also used as the average HP for normal melee hits if SE is not used as WS-only (should probably separate those values).

Bonus damage from Chaos Burgeonet/etc is factored in, if applicable. Stalwart Soul reduction is factored in for the weaponskill calculations (assumed level 90; doesn't scale if you choose a different base character level).

The number of configuration options makes even the slimmed down setup page a bit bulky. Sorry about that.

Also, added a second target to test against. The default lvl 97 mob is now considered 'Fodder', and I added in some rough estimated stats for a more difficult NM, Bukhis (values based on parse data from 8 fights; should be in the right ballpark, but no guarantees of accuracy).

Edit: rereading earlier posts, I think I forgot to carry over the Catastrophe haste bonus. Have to add that in. However it does now factor in AF3+2 set bonus.

Also, new download location: Google docs.
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By veddertehtaco 2011-05-28 11:41:49
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epicness
 Leviathan.Niniann
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By Leviathan.Niniann 2011-05-28 12:16:20
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I think DRKs everywhere just peed their pants in excitement. :3
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By Fenrir.Motenten 2011-05-28 12:20:29
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Uploaded new version.

Re-adds Catastrophe haste; splits HP% for average melee and starting weaponskill for Souleater; and fixes some bugs Nightfyre found.
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