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Auction Houses
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By Tesla 2010-11-24 16:07:30
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Since I've seen this in several threads already, I'd like to educate the ones that have been living in a bubble. Not all Auction Houses are equal. The model that FFXI uses is not the standard. The WoW model is not the standard, but at least take the time to educate yourself on the differences. The term Auction House in relation to MMOs is more of a loose term to describe a centralized system to help trade goods.

I'm only writing this because I've read so many posts of people trying to offer up improvements on the market ward system to make it to their liking. Stuff like this:

Quote:
Add a search feature

Quote:
Lower the number of wards

Quote:
Categorize the results of the search, but whatever you do don't add an auction house

So adding the aformentioned features sounds like what? Yeah, WoW, and guess what, they called it an Auction House.

WoW Auction House
- You can see who is selling items
- You can see the price and supply
- You can do a keyword search of what's available
- Goods are categorized

The difference between WoW and FFXIV Market Wards with enhancements are mostly dependant on how the search feature is implemented. Will it be from the main menu? Will it be accessed from an object simliar to what you use to manage your retainer? Will it be accessible only once you're in the market ward? No matter which it is, the difference is involved in finding physical the retainer or bazaar. That is assuming they dont let you purchase it from the search feature, in which case, it'll make wards pointless. So within the scope of "Auction Houses semantics", the differences are small.

So why not implement a WoW style auction house? Is it a fear of being called a "WoW clone"? Is it trying to be innovative even in the face of failure? Or is it just because the lead designer has never played WoW? Or maybe because Hiromichi Tanaka loathes it so much he forgot how to compete. Probably all of them, but if you didn't want a mainstream game, you got it, congrats.

It doesn't have to look and feel like WoW, just a system that keeps the economy running and doesn't have us spending hours making up for a system that's not there rather than enjoying the game's content.
[+]
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By SilentCascades 2010-11-24 17:01:11
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Theres already evidence they plan to eventually implement auction houses. I know Limsa Lominsa at least has a sealed off door with XI's AH symbol above it.. I personally think it's a complete waste though, they went to such far lengths to setup Retainers as they are now that an AH would practically kill their usefulness. (It wouldn't do so outright, as there will always be merit to player-bazaars.. but it will cripple the ward-system severely.)

I agree though that not all AH's are created equally, and while XI's system sucked we could very well get an excellent one here.
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By CidelLight 2010-11-24 17:07:26
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SilentCascades said:
Theres already evidence they plan to eventually implement auction houses. I know Limsa Lominsa at least has a sealed off door with XI's AH symbol above it.. I personally think it's a complete waste though, they went to such far lengths to setup Retainers as they are now that an AH would practically kill their usefulness. (It wouldn't do so outright, as there will always be merit to player-bazaars.. but it will cripple the ward-system severely.) I agree though that not all AH's are created equally, and while XI's system sucked we could very well get an excellent one here.

thats really a court room and not a AH, the hammer is a judges hammer. i think it has something to do with the story line in limsa.
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By SilentCascades 2010-11-24 17:09:16
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It strikes me very odd they'd use the same symbol for something entirely different instead of simply creating one anew, so I'm not sure I entirely buy that one. Not going to argue about it, but they're being misleading about it for no good reason if that's the case.

At the very least I imagine if it's not reserved for an AH.. then it probably was originally intended for one before they changed their minds and turned it into something else.
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By Valefor.Slipispsycho 2010-11-24 17:17:23
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SilentCascades said:
It strikes me very odd they'd use the same symbol for something entirely different instead of simply creating one anew, so I'm not sure I entirely buy that one. Not going to argue about it, but they're being misleading about it for no good reason if that's the case.

At the very least I imagine if it's not reserved for an AH.. then it probably was originally intended for one before they changed their minds and turned it into something else.
Yes, because SE NEVER offers 'new things' that are simply just re-skins of old things.

There is no evidence of any plans to implement an AH, there is however plenty against it. Do you honestly think they would be putting all the work they are into the bazaar/retainer system, if they planned to just waste all that work by introducing an AH? I find that to be extremely unlikely..

Also, unless they planned to make Limsa the sole owner of the game's AH (perhaps Ishgard as well since we can't get in there yet) there would be AH symbols elsewhere as well.. They wouldn't just throw one up in Limsa and forget the other two cities.
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By SilentCascades 2010-11-24 17:20:59
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Didn't I JUST say in the post before that that it would be a waste?

SilentCascades said:
I personally think it's a complete waste though, they went to such far lengths to setup Retainers as they are now that an AH would practically kill their usefulness.

And it is a recognizable SYMBOL of all things, it's not the same as a reskinned model. (The latter of which is generally done for technical reasons anyway, not out of sheer laziness.) You're picking at this for no good reason here.

Also Limsa was the first completed city as far as we know. It was the only playable area in early alpha and for awhile onward. Like I said in that post, it may have been INTENDED for an AH ORIGINALLY but then they changed their minds. That's hardly a stretch. Crap gets left over like that in games all the time, and then eventually later reused for other purposes.
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By CidelLight 2010-11-24 17:26:45
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Valefor.Slipispsycho said:
SilentCascades said:
It strikes me very odd they'd use the same symbol for something entirely different instead of simply creating one anew, so I'm not sure I entirely buy that one. Not going to argue about it, but they're being misleading about it for no good reason if that's the case. At the very least I imagine if it's not reserved for an AH.. then it probably was originally intended for one before they changed their minds and turned it into something else.
Yes, because SE NEVER offers 'new things' that are simply just re-skins of old things. There is no evidence of any plans to implement an AH, there is however plenty against it. Do you honestly think they would be putting all the work they are into the bazaar/retainer system, if they planned to just waste all that work by introducing an AH? I find that to be extremely unlikely.. Also, unless they planned to make Limsa the sole owner of the game's AH (perhaps Ishgard as well since we can't get in there yet) there would be AH symbols elsewhere as well.. They wouldn't just throw one up in Limsa and forget the other two cities.


Well there are areas that we cant go in just yet in the citys so not seeing other signs like that only in limda does not mean anything. Its like the airship area in gridania but not in the other 2 citys.


SilentCascades said:
And it is a recognizable SYMBOL of all things, it's not the same as a reskinned model. (The latter of which is generally done for technical reasons anyway, not out of sheer laziness.) You're picking at this for no good reason here.

Its not like it cant mean a action house hammer or a judges hammer there both kinda the same thing. So the symbol can be the same for both, it just not have to be one or for other it could be used with both of them its a genaral symbol for the both of them.
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By SilentCascades 2010-11-24 17:30:12
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CidelLight said:
Well there are areas that we cant go in just yet in the citys so not seeing other signs like that only in limda does not mean anything. Its like the airship area in gridania but not in the other 2 citys.
Correct. I should have thought to point this out myself.

CidelLight said:
Its not like it cant mean a action house hammer or a judges hammer there both kinda the same thing. So the symbol can be the same for both, it just not have to be one or for other it could be used with both of them its a genaral symbol for the both of them.
I agree wholeheartedly.
The gavel has enough semblance to a Judge that I can understand the icon choice, though that doesn't mean - should it simply be a judges quarters and have nothing to do with an AH - that I agree with the design choice to reuse an icon previously established for something else when they could have just as soon made one anew.. (Like a symbol of scales, or a hammer and scales, or any number of other things.)

Though indeed it could be used for both (in which case, the icon choice makes a lot more sense), there could honestly be a lot more to that area than simply an AH or simply a Judges quarters. Anything is possible.
 Valefor.Slipispsycho
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By Valefor.Slipispsycho 2010-11-24 22:46:40
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Fenrir.Sasukeuchiha said:
Valefor.Slipispsycho said:
(perhaps Ishgard as well since we can't get in there yet)

Yes you can currently get into ishgard.

Since when? <.<
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By SilentCascades 2010-11-24 23:10:36
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Valefor.Slipispsycho said:
Fenrir.Sasukeuchiha said:
Valefor.Slipispsycho said:
(perhaps Ishgard as well since we can't get in there yet)

Yes you can currently get into ishgard.

Since when? <.<
I'm wondering the same thing. Last I checked it's inaccessible and has been since forever ago.
 Shiva.Flionheart
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By Shiva.Flionheart 2010-11-24 23:21:59
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Valefor.Slipispsycho said:
Fenrir.Sasukeuchiha said:
Valefor.Slipispsycho said:
(perhaps Ishgard as well since we can't get in there yet)

Yes you can currently get into ishgard.

Since when? <.<
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By Dubont 2010-11-24 23:25:33
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Valefor.Slipispsycho said:
Fenrir.Sasukeuchiha said:
Valefor.Slipispsycho said:
(perhaps Ishgard as well since we can't get in there yet)

Yes you can currently get into ishgard.

Since when? <.<
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By orionpk 2010-11-25 01:38:02
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anyone seen the uldah small town? the hammer icon is also there and the AH ffxi counters
 Leviathan.Pimpchan
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By Leviathan.Pimpchan 2010-11-25 01:57:12
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Tesla said:
Probably all of them, but if you didn't want a mainstream game, you got it, congrats.

Don't want a mainstream game that fails to release more finished expansions than FFXI with 30 x more subscribers. Why do you want it to similar to wow and not ffxi anyway lol. Actually no, why do you want it to be similar to any of them. Isn't wow responsible for the RMT bullshit on all mmorpg ? I don't think it would be brillant to copy them seriously...

The ward system can succeed, but clearly SE didn't think a single moment of what to do with them. In the german interview tanaka said retainer are designed to avoid players staying overnight for bazar ; we still have hope for a centralized AH. What would be ideal for me :

* Keep the wards, with a working categorization system
* implement the search feature from the main menu (by replacing the retainer entry)
* The search feature will let you find items, you will get a list of prices but not a price history of the item sold.
* Make the search UI so as to prevent automated actions : put a visual list of what is being sold and then put arrows on the head of the retainers that sell the stuff. The player cannot automate buying things this way.
( alternatively : you can buy directly from the search menu but the item is deliverd directly to your retainer instead of you ; make is so that the UI when buying doesn't allow automation , for instance if you seek X, put the results in an unsorted order of prices).



** : make it possible to buy and search from anywhere in the world ; make the buy feature from the retainer to a good use. Just pretend you can call your retainers with a cellphone.



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By SilentCascades 2010-11-25 02:32:24
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orionpk said:
anyone seen the uldah small town? the hammer icon is also there and the AH ffxi counters
If you're referring to the Golden Bazaar.. There are indeed what appear to be XI-style auction windows there, though I did not see the AH symbol anywhere in that town.. what I DID see were Crafting symbols on buildings with the auction windows.. I'm starting to wonder if these weren't implemented to allow you to search and purchase from (or maybe even sell to?) the Ward's without having to actually travel all the way to the city-state to do so..

It's quite curious, whatever the meaning of that town. It's definitely way out of the way though, so I'm having a hard time figuring out what its significance might be.
 Gilgamesh.Thedreamer
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By Gilgamesh.Thedreamer 2010-11-25 06:43:00
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You can try to turn the problem any way you want...ff14 without AH is like coffee without water : IT SUCK BAD !
I saw multiple threads of peoples complainin of bein *** often cause "Crafters put items at a freakin price in Bazaar" cause when u lack an AH, you cant get any list...
No matter how u see it, no AH was a freakin dumb move of SE.
Well it only made the lack of content of ff14 even more calamitous.
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By Dubont 2010-11-25 09:13:46
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Gilgamesh.Thedreamer said:
You can try to turn the problem any way you want...ff14 without AH is like coffee without water : IT SUCK BAD !
I saw multiple threads of peoples complainin of bein *** often cause "Crafters put items at a freakin price in Bazaar" cause when u lack an AH, you cant get any list...
No matter how u see it, no AH was a freakin dumb move of SE.
Well it only made the lack of content of ff14 even more calamitous.
people complain about the price now...but imagine if there was an AH. Price fixing will happen, without a doubt unless they hide the price history for the items. If those people that got screwed over with the bazaars are too dumb to actually look around, they deserve to be ripped off. It's just like real life, this store may sell something for $5.99 and the store down the road may sell it for $3.99. If you buy at the first place, it's your fault for not shopping around and weighing your options.
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By Valefor.Shaone 2010-11-25 10:12:16
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Gilgamesh.Thedreamer said:
No matter how u see it, no AH was a freakin dumb move of SE.
Well it only made the lack of content of ff14 even more calamitous.
It wasn't a dumb move. It just tips the scales in favour of the sellers a little more than the other models at the expense of inconvenience to the buyer. Hopefully they can maintain the sellers edge whilst making things easier to find. You won't find a single seller complaining that they can still sell things for the price they want when the bazaar next to them has 10 for half that price.

offtopic:
Also the apparent lack of content is really just an opinion, and I think one which was propagated by the early reviews which seemed to imply that there was only grinding, leves and more grinding. But now the ranks are known to unlock all this hidden content it certainly helps to motivate for the grind.

Not that grinding isn't fun in a large group, I actually prefer it over XI parties (pre and post abyssea). But again I don't think the party spots were well established at the time of the reviews, and for me solo grinding really is horrible compared to charging round an area with a large group obliterating everything.
 Fenrir.Sasukeuchiha
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By Fenrir.Sasukeuchiha 2010-11-27 04:21:09
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Dubont said:
Valefor.Slipispsycho said:
Fenrir.Sasukeuchiha said:
Valefor.Slipispsycho said:
(perhaps Ishgard as well since we can't get in there yet)
Yes you can currently get into ishgard.
Since when? <.<

It has to do soemthing with the mian story of the town you are in. You have to liek finish ever quest or soemthing like that to get access. There even move proof here http://www.eorzeapedia.com/wiki/en/Ishgard. There would be no info on npc nothing if there was unable to get access.
 Leviathan.Deezell
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By Leviathan.Deezell 2010-11-27 04:29:12
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Fenrir.Sasukeuchiha said:
Dubont said:
Valefor.Slipispsycho said:
Fenrir.Sasukeuchiha said:
Valefor.Slipispsycho said:
(perhaps Ishgard as well since we can't get in there yet)
Yes you can currently get into ishgard.
Since when? <.<
It has to do soemthing with the mian story of the town you are in. You have to liek finish ever quest or soemthing like that to get access. There even move proof here http://www.eorzeapedia.com/wiki/en/Ishgard. There would be no info on npc nothing if there was unable to get access.
that npc info is about the camps in coerthas... i seen that before too
 Valefor.Slipispsycho
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By Valefor.Slipispsycho 2010-11-27 04:53:49
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Fenrir.Sasukeuchiha said:
Dubont said:
Valefor.Slipispsycho said:
Fenrir.Sasukeuchiha said:
Valefor.Slipispsycho said:
(perhaps Ishgard as well since we can't get in there yet)
Yes you can currently get into ishgard.
Since when? <.<

It has to do soemthing with the mian story of the town you are in. You have to liek finish ever quest or soemthing like that to get access. There even move proof here http://www.eorzeapedia.com/wiki/en/Ishgard. There would be no info on npc nothing if there was unable to get access.
I found that awhile back too, however.. If you click on each NPC you will see those are NPC's at camps, and not ones in Ishgard itself..

EDIT: Didn't see that they'd already said that.

I still say Ishgard is closed, I've yet to see a single picture taken from within the city walls, even though there are plenty of people at max level that would have access if it was as simple as completing all current storyline quests.

If Ishgard was actually open at this moment, you can bet we'd of already heard about it. Pretty much everyone wants in there, so it would be big news if people were starting to get in.
 Leviathan.Rihoko
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By Leviathan.Rihoko 2010-11-27 04:59:05
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PS3 limitations (^^); oh noes
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By zahakdrakesbane 2010-11-27 20:39:11
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Wards works great for me and the damn search isn't even implemented yet. I don't see what there is to complain about once the search function appears. Just log back on in a month or so and you won't have to worry :)
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By Unmei 2010-11-27 20:46:25
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I really love how the retainers wear the gear they are selling...mine is looking really pimp atm =). The search function will be definite plus though.